An honest question for Mormons

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seems too presumptous and arrogant for a mere mortal for a self-promotion to God’s status.😃
God bless.
Are you aware of your own doctrines and beliefs on this?

Maybe you should do a little more studying of your own teachings, especially of the early church.

MEgus
 
Paul,

You are aware that Catholic beliefs are that you will become God’s as well don’t you?

MEgus
Not in the same way you do. We do not believe in “continuation of the seeds” and populating worlds with our spirit children and being worshiped by them, etc. The Catechism has already been quoted to you on this.

Paul
 
Are you aware of your own doctrines and beliefs on this?

Maybe you should do a little more studying of your own teachings, especially of the early church.

MEgus
Megus, the doctrine of theosis or deification is vastly, and qualitatively, different than that of exaltation. According to exaltation we are of the same type of being as the gods, and while we need their help to progress they are simply helping our own nature mature. According to theosis or deification, we are completely different beings and whatever God chooses to share with us in terms of divinity is completely alien to our creature nature.

Maybe ti seems like scruples to you, but if you come to a belief in God as I have it will suddenly seem like the most important distinction in the cosmos.
 
According to theosis or deification, we are completely different beings and whatever God chooses to share with us in terms of divinity is completely alien to our creature nature.
This is a foundational distinction. Mormons do not accept that they are creatures. They believe God has been made from an eternal substance called “intelligence”. It follows to them that God made themselves of the same “intelligence”.

Mormons do not believe that they are a separate creation of God, but are gods in the making. Progressing eternally from this point to deification, this adds to the glory of their God. And so it follows that as they become gods and do the things of a god, they too will become more glorified.

Christians understand God is God, and there is no other. We are creatures, created by God’s will and for God’s purpose and desires. God desires that we are with Him for all eternity. Where, God shares His divine nature with us. There is a foretelling of this in the Liturgy of the Eucharist:

“By the mystery of this water and wine may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself to share in our humanity.”

And of course, in the Eucharist itself.

We share in the nature of God, we do not become that nature.

Mormons have no such understanding.
 
Rebecca,

I completely agree with this and this is why Mormon after Mormon blithely assumes that Christian deification is the same thing as exaltation and that we just must be all ignorant. The truth of the matter is, if I am to be completely blunt, Mormons not only do not accept their own utterly dependent existent as creatures but they also do not believe in GOD, properly speaking. I should add a caveat and say that I think many Mormons do believe in GOD, unaware that their religion teaches otherwise.
 
Since we’re on this topic I should add that the endowment ceremony used to explicitly mock the orthodox concept of God as an invention of Lucifer, so…
 
Since we’re on this topic I should add that the endowment ceremony used to explicitly mock the orthodox concept of God as an invention of Lucifer, so…
Mormons still essentially say the same thing…the doctrine of the Trinity invented by a pagan emperor…or Platonic philosophy…or “Helenized”.

Anything to keep themselves blind to the truth.
 
Mormons still essentially say the same thing…the doctrine of the Trinity invented by a pagan emperor…or Platonic philosophy…or “Helenized”.

Anything to keep themselves blind to the truth.
That’s my favorite, it’s all Greek. Apparently if you label it ‘Greek’ that’s all you have to do, the doctrine is bad. NEvermind the reasoning behind the doctrine, the biblical support, nope… it’s ‘Greek’ and therefore bad and therefore permission is given to multiply gods all over the place.
 
Irenaeus (ca. AD 115-202)
Code:
We were not made gods at our beginning, but first we were made men, then, in the end, gods.

While man gradually advances and mounts towards perfection; that is, he approaches the eternal. The eternal is perfect; and this is God. Man has first to come into being, then to progress, and by progressing come to manhood, and having reached manhood to increase, and thus increasing to persevere, and persevering to be glorified, and thus see his Lord. 


there is none other called God by the Scriptures except the Father of all, and the Son, and those who possess the adoption....Since, therefore, this is sure and stedfast, that no other God or Lord was announced by the Spirit, except Him who, as God, rules over all, together with His Word, and those who receive the Spirit of adoption.


How then will any be a god, if he has not first been made a man? How can any be perfect when he has only lately been made man? How immortal, if he has not in his mortal nature obeyed his maker? For one's duty is first to observe the discipline of man and thereafter to share in the glory of God.

Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, of his boundless love, became what we are that he might make us what he himself is.” 

But of what gods [does he speak]? [Of those] to whom He says, "I have said, Ye are gods, and all sons of the Most High." To those, no doubt, who have received the grace of the "adoption, by which we cry, Abba Father."”  

For he who holds, without pride and boasting, the true glory (opinion) regarding created things and the Creator, who is the Almighty God of all, and who has granted existence to all; [such an one, ] continuing in His love and subjection, and giving of thanks, shall also receive from Him the greater glory of promotion, looking forward to the time when he shall become like Him who died for him, for He, too, "was made in the likeness of sinful flesh," to condemn sin, and to cast it, as now a condemned thing, away beyond the flesh, but that He might call man forth into His own likeness, assigning him as [His own] imitator to God, and imposing on him His Father's law, in order that he may see God, and granting him power to receive the Father; [being] the Word of God who dwelt in man, and became the Son of man, that He might accustom man to receive God, and God to dwell in man, according to the good pleasure of the Father.
 
Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215)
Code:
yea, I say, the Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god. 

...if one knows himself, he will know God, and knowing God will become like God...His is beauty, true beauty, for it is God, and that man becomes god, since God wills it. So Heraclitus was right when he said, "Men are gods, and gods are men."

Those who have been perfected are given their reward and their honors. They have done with their purification, they have done with the rest of their service, though it be a holy service, with the holy; now they become pure in heart, and because of their close intimacy with the Lord there awaits them a restoration to eternal contemplation; and they have received the title of "gods" since they are destined to be enthroned with the other "gods" who are ranked next below the savior.
 
Hippolytus (AD 170-236)
Now in all these acts He offered up, as the first-fruits, His own manhood, in order that thou, when thou art in tribulation, mayest not be disheartened, but, confessing thyself to be a man (of like nature with the Redeemer,) mayest dwell in expectation of also receiving what the Father has granted unto this Son...The Deity (by condescension) does not diminish anything of the dignity of His divine perfection having made you even God unto his glory.
 
Augustine (AD 354-430)
but He himself that justifies also deifies, for by justifying He makes sons of God. For He has given them power to become the sons of God, (John 1:12). If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.
 
Gen. 3:22

22 ¶ And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
 
1 Cor. 8: 5-6
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
 
And what Megus is doing is a typical example of Mormon apologetics, take snippets of this and that which sound good and on the surface appear to agree with a peculiar Mormon doctrine without realizing the larger context of the thinking of the authors.

I assure you Megus, no central church father ever thought that we are of the fundamentally same species as god, that the godhead is made up of 4 distinct gods including a goddess mother who weren’t always gods htemselves but became that way in the same way that we can become them. Try as you might to force fit in quotations dealing with deification or theosis- imputing an alien nature onto us creatures by GOD- we remain unimpressed.

If anything your quotes show that you aren’t reading what we’re saying anyway because you wouldn’t have bothered with those quotes. Am I wasting my time demonstrating essential distinctives between theosis and exaltation?
 
MEgus,

You’re quoting bishops and saints of the Catholic church, but you’re viewing her teachings through Mormon lenses. If you wish to align yourself with the teachings of One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, why do you remain LDS?
 
Oh this is great. It really shows all the beliefs.

I had to laugh when I read this:

Our Ancestors Need Our Help

Mario Cannamela married Maria Vitta in 1882. They lived in Tripani, Italy, where they raised a family and shared many wonderful years together. Mario and Maria did not hear the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. They were not baptized. They did not have the opportunity to go to the temple and be sealed together as an eternal family. At death, their marriage ended.

Over a century later a great reunion took place. Descendants of Mario and Maria went to the Los Angeles Temple, where a great-grandson and his wife knelt at an altar and served as proxies for the sealing of Mario and Maria. Tears filled their eyes as they shared in Mario and Maria’s joy.

Mario and Maria no doubt were Roman Catholics if they lived in Italy in 1882. Now they are Mormoms forever in heaven! Ha!
 
Oh this is great. It really shows all the beliefs.

I had to laugh when I read this:

Our Ancestors Need Our Help

Mario Cannamela married Maria Vitta in 1882. They lived in Tripani, Italy, where they raised a family and shared many wonderful years together. Mario and Maria did not hear the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ during their lifetimes. They were not baptized. They did not have the opportunity to go to the temple and be sealed together as an eternal family. At death, their marriage ended.

Over a century later a great reunion took place. Descendants of Mario and Maria went to the Los Angeles Temple, where a great-grandson and his wife knelt at an altar and served as proxies for the sealing of Mario and Maria. Tears filled their eyes as they shared in Mario and Maria’s joy.

Mario and Maria no doubt were Roman Catholics if they lived in Italy in 1882. Now they are Mormoms forever in heaven! Ha!
Not Mormon, they are members of the Church of Jesus Christ.

I guess you missed that. And of course, they have their agency, like you, to chose for themselves.

But tell me, which is a better heaven? The one where you are no longer married to your spouse? And your children are just people who you happened to raise as you believe, or one where you and your spouse are still sealed together as husband and wife. And where your family is sealed together as a family unit?

MEgus
 
The bible says that our goal is to become members of the universal family of God, not our own little earthly nuclear families. But then, Mormons only pay lip service to the bible, they don’t really believe it.

Paul
 
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