an idea I've been kicking around...

[Isidore_AK]

I know that some have suggested leaving this to the Bishops, but in a lot of places they’re part of the problem- not the solution.

Sparky-

Why don’t you do up a sample survey, and post it. That way we can go over what type of questions are needed. Or if you’d like you can PM me, & I can work on one. I have my GIRM & RS at home…

I think this is an excellent idea. Maybe this will let us pressure the more heterodox clergy into reforming (or quitting- I really don’t care which at this point!).

 

[Patrick2340]

At first I really liked this idea. There is, however, one rather bothersome loophole. Suppose that parishioners of a poorly rated parish decided to change the rating of their parish. They could, conceivably, fill out the survey in a manner that, while being totally disingenuous, would boost the parish score.

I think that you might consider establishing an apostolate with the goal being to report on liturgical abuse. You’d have to screen volunteers in this apostolate very carefully to ensure that they are not radicals or reactionaries. Having a dissenter (either radically liberal or radically reactionary) in your ranks will undoubtedly destroy your credibility.

Perhaps you could tabulate a GIRM score for each parish evaluated by your apostolate. The score would a neutral indicator of the level of fidelity to the rubrics. Perhaps a combined score and average score could be calculated for each diocese.

Just some thoughts…

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Sparky:

I’ve been thinking about building a survey Web site where users can rate a parish’s liturgical performance based on the rules of the GIRM. I’d like to get a lot of orthodox (lower case ‘o’) (name removed by moderator)ut on such a site, but I was wondering if people might find something like that useful.

Here’s how it works: you’d fill out a survey of questions designed to help you objectively describe your mass experience based on the rules of the mass presented in the GIRM. Based on your objective answers, the site rates the parish’s mass with a degree of liturgical orthodoxy. Ultimately, if people want to find an orthodox parish, they can search for parishes in their area and read the reviews…

I’d really like help, though. If you’re interested in helping me design the liturgy survey, please PM me.
–Ann

Wonderful idea! I’ve been thinking we need something like this. My cousin just left this area and went to antoher state. We are working through a network of priests to find her a parish that is orthodox in her new home town. It would also be nice for traveling when visiting another city.

Such a survey could be broken into different parts. One would be compliance to GIRM, and another section related to style (i.e., does it offer TLM, other traditional style of Novus Ordo, non-traditional, etc). This part can be important for those looking for a more traditional environment to worship in. This usually comes with more traditional settings, traditional vestments, traditional wardrobe for altar boys and lectors, traditional sacred music, traditional devotions and the like (processions, benediction, etc.)

Music may be another area of such a survey too. Are the hymns typicall traditional sacred, or mostly from non traditional (i.e. Glory & Praise), or a mix? Is Gregorian Chant offered?

I think another important area in distinguishing “orthodox” could be the homily. Orthodox priests, I find, have a tendency to be more concerned with my salvation intheir homilies than my self-esteem. This means they regularly talk about sin, sacrifice, justice, self-denial & discipline, and devotion. I’ve been only 7 weeks in a traditional, orthodox parish and I have been moved deeply by the homilies that still shock me because they aren’t afraid to talk about anything in a rather straight forward manner (not to be confused with fire & brimstone which it is not). So, maybe there is a way to classify homilies such as this

For purposes of discussion, I will define “Hard” and “Soft” issues as follows:

Soft: Love, Mercy, Peace, Charity, Service, etc.
Hard: Sin, Sacrifice, Justice, Self-Denial, Confession, Obligations, Self-Discipline

• Hard and soft issues are well balanced:
• Hard issues over-emphasized and not enough emphasis on soft issues.
• Soft Issues over-emphasized and not enough emphasis on soft issues…

 

[Della]

If you need any help, Ann, just contact me.

 

[CARose]

Sparky,

I actually had the same idea and suggested it when they were soliciting feedback during a recent diocesan synod. It unfortunately didn’t go anywhere. I think the concerns raised here were what sank it.

I saw it as being directly associated with MassTimes.org, so anyone seeking info on a parish could also get this survey info. In my view of things a traveling Catholic could rate their Mass experience at an out of town parish.

I think you could look for “out-lyers” in your data, survey responders who are frequently out of line with the rest of your respondants. At the same time, this could simply result in the majority of the cafeteria catholics running the results, not what we’re looking for. Although, I can’t think of too many cafeteria Catholics who care enough about this kind of thing to bother taking the time. However, if results became something that were looked at by the Bishops, or a parish wanted their rating improved, you can be certain you’d find a group of people willing to put some energy into changing their results.

So, either you don’t include the response of a new participant until they’ve completed at least 3 surveys and their results fall within the average of responses for the given parishes, or you have another screening mechanism in place to minimize abuse. Perhaps you don’t publish how you screen the (name removed by moderator)ut data to prevent people from playing the game to get their info accepted.

Then Lux had the following suggestion I’d like to comment on:

Lux_et_veritas:

… So, maybe there is a way to classify homilies such as this

For purposes of discussion, I will define “Hard” and “Soft” issues as follows:

Soft: Love, Mercy, Peace, Charity, Service, etc.
Hard: Sin, Sacrifice, Justice, Self-Denial, Confession, Obligations, Self-Discipline

• Hard and soft issues are well balanced:
• Hard issues over-emphasized and not enough emphasis on soft issues.
• Soft Issues over-emphasized and not enough emphasis on soft issues…

I think I’d word the options as:
Q 1. Given these definitions of Hard and Soft issues how would you describe the homily?

A) Addressed only Hard issues
B) Predominanly addressed Hard issues
C) Addressed both Hard and Soft issues equally
D) Predominantly addressed Soft issues
E) Addressed only Soft issues
F) Neither -

Q 2. If Neither, how would you describe the homily?
A) Church history (e.g. life of a Saint) emphasis
B) Scripture interpretation emphasis
C) Homily unrelated to any of the above

Just a few of my many rambling thoughts on the topic. I wish you well with the endeavor. I’d love to see it happen and I would gladly participate in making the ratings.

CARose

 

[Tedster]

I like the idea. I agree with cazayoux here though:

cazayoux:

Not an easy thing … to rate a parish based on a mass.My church in Allen, TX has several masses: daily, saturday afternoon, several on sunday. i find that each is different.

If an observer went to the 7:00 AM Sunday Mass at our parish, he/she would walk away with a positive view…but the 6:00 PM “Teen Mass” might be completely different!

Maybe, and I know this might be more work, each Mass could be rated, then the parish rated on whole.

I would be willing to help with your project, and I think alot of others would too!