N
- Status
Y
yinekka
Guest
All saints of Ireland intercede for that country.
Their lack of clerical dress sort of gave the game away. Why on earth did they spend six years becoming Catholic priests if they don’t agree with celibacy?
Their lack of clerical dress sort of gave the game away. Why on earth did they spend six years becoming Catholic priests if they don’t agree with celibacy?
B
bkovacs
Guest
Hence why the entire Catholic Church in Ireland is being investigated. Also some of their faithful feel that the Popes decision on the new translation of the OF Form Mass is outright wrong, because THEY were not consulted. Who do they think they are!!. Seems like England is becoming more of a Roman Catholic country than Ireland is lately. Seems like every new priest serving in Ireland my end up being trained in seminaries in Rome.
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100081794/irish-priests-imply-that-their-parishioners-are-too-stupid-to-understand-the-new-english-missal/
blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100081794/irish-priests-imply-that-their-parishioners-are-too-stupid-to-understand-the-new-english-missal/
F
FightingFat
Guest
You can see from the interview what the prevalent opinion is in Ireland. I’m of Irish descent (scratch an English Catholic, you’ll find an Irishman) and I travel to Ireland regularly. What I find there is that very few Catholics understand their faith (a direct result of the dearth of Catechesis we have seen since V II). It has become a superstition rather than the antithesis to superstition.
I
Iotaunum
Guest
Speaking as someone who lives in Ireland I am annoyed by this but not surprised in the least. Objectively speaking, most of the priests I have spoken to here have lost the faith - objectively speaking. Ireland had become so liberal in the last 40 years that no one would recognise it as one of the most Catholic of all places in the history of the Church, as it formerly was. From my years of taking to priests, bishops and laity here as well as my other observations I blame the decline of the Church in Ireland on the following:
1/ The changes in the 60’s - Vatican II and following - New Mass etc
2/ Lack of proper seminary formation of Priests
3/ False apparitions
Agree or disagree, this is my own opinion based on living here and talking to clergy and laity for years.
1/ The Changes in the 60’s :
I personally know of many many families who responded very negatively to the intoduction of the New rite of Mass. Many stopped going, some priests left the priesthood and a lot of lay people from my diosese wrote to the bishop and asked for Masses to continue in the old rite. Some elderly priests continued to say Mass in houses. This practice died out to a large degree with the next generation. Also, ecumenism was encouraged. Many Catholics in this diocese reacted strongly. For one, we had years of Catholics being treated as second class citizens by the Protestants. Catholic schools got no funding, and were discriminated against. Not more than 30/40 years ago it was legal for Protestants (and common) to write “Catholics need not apply” into the job sections. Also, Catholics here had a very strong faith. If they had a protestant neighbour they told them that their faith was wrong. Many conversions happened and my relatives and others remember the Priests preaching from the pulpit on the errors of protestantism and the danger to the souls they present. Missons were given frequently and many sought the priests permission before the even set foot over the gates of a protestant church for a wedding or funeral. Then they were told to attend these services as “unity pilgrims”.
2/ Lack of proper seminary formation of Priests
This confusion and liberalism first of all lead to a decline in the number of people wanted to become priests. Ireland used to have many seminaries and many many hundreds of seminarians each year. Since the 60’s seminary after seminary has closed and the only one left open was not teaching Catholic doctrine. A seminarian would be lucky if he made it through training with his faith intact. This would indeed be miraculous. An older priest showed me his latin theology and philosophy books and I compared them to some of those used today. Words cant describe the difference. It would almost drive one to despair. Priests being formed liberally and rejecting Catholic teaching (as the video shows) lead to laity becoming more liberal and faithless.
3/ False apparitions
Lastly hard as it is to believe, most Catholics who go to mass here either believe in false apparitions or follow them. Christina Gallagher (before she was condemned by her Bishop) had thousands of followers. All you could hear at mass anywhere was: Christina Gallagher, Medjugorje, Olive Dawson, Fr Gobbi, Anne the “lay apostle” etc. They are inclined to believe every word that comes from these “seers” no matter how contrary they are to the Catholic faith, but whats worse many priests follow them and none I have met are willing to stop flyers being left on the various false appartions and pilgrimages. If you have a copy of Ludwig Ott’s fundamentals of Catholic dogma and quote a de fide teaching, you are met with angry faces and a “No! Thats wrong /thats the “old” teaching - Mary said to so and so to the contrary”.
Of course there are many other factors - however if you talk to a priest or lay Catholic here you will find some evidence of some of these three factors.
1/ The changes in the 60’s - Vatican II and following - New Mass etc
2/ Lack of proper seminary formation of Priests
3/ False apparitions
Agree or disagree, this is my own opinion based on living here and talking to clergy and laity for years.
1/ The Changes in the 60’s :
I personally know of many many families who responded very negatively to the intoduction of the New rite of Mass. Many stopped going, some priests left the priesthood and a lot of lay people from my diosese wrote to the bishop and asked for Masses to continue in the old rite. Some elderly priests continued to say Mass in houses. This practice died out to a large degree with the next generation. Also, ecumenism was encouraged. Many Catholics in this diocese reacted strongly. For one, we had years of Catholics being treated as second class citizens by the Protestants. Catholic schools got no funding, and were discriminated against. Not more than 30/40 years ago it was legal for Protestants (and common) to write “Catholics need not apply” into the job sections. Also, Catholics here had a very strong faith. If they had a protestant neighbour they told them that their faith was wrong. Many conversions happened and my relatives and others remember the Priests preaching from the pulpit on the errors of protestantism and the danger to the souls they present. Missons were given frequently and many sought the priests permission before the even set foot over the gates of a protestant church for a wedding or funeral. Then they were told to attend these services as “unity pilgrims”.
2/ Lack of proper seminary formation of Priests
This confusion and liberalism first of all lead to a decline in the number of people wanted to become priests. Ireland used to have many seminaries and many many hundreds of seminarians each year. Since the 60’s seminary after seminary has closed and the only one left open was not teaching Catholic doctrine. A seminarian would be lucky if he made it through training with his faith intact. This would indeed be miraculous. An older priest showed me his latin theology and philosophy books and I compared them to some of those used today. Words cant describe the difference. It would almost drive one to despair. Priests being formed liberally and rejecting Catholic teaching (as the video shows) lead to laity becoming more liberal and faithless.
3/ False apparitions
Lastly hard as it is to believe, most Catholics who go to mass here either believe in false apparitions or follow them. Christina Gallagher (before she was condemned by her Bishop) had thousands of followers. All you could hear at mass anywhere was: Christina Gallagher, Medjugorje, Olive Dawson, Fr Gobbi, Anne the “lay apostle” etc. They are inclined to believe every word that comes from these “seers” no matter how contrary they are to the Catholic faith, but whats worse many priests follow them and none I have met are willing to stop flyers being left on the various false appartions and pilgrimages. If you have a copy of Ludwig Ott’s fundamentals of Catholic dogma and quote a de fide teaching, you are met with angry faces and a “No! Thats wrong /thats the “old” teaching - Mary said to so and so to the contrary”.
Of course there are many other factors - however if you talk to a priest or lay Catholic here you will find some evidence of some of these three factors.
F
FightingFat
Guest
This is exactly what I meant about superstitiousness.
N
NPC
Guest
St. Patrick pray for us indeed.
I recall seeing this interview when it was originally aired on Irish television. It was extremely disappointing to see three priests saying what they thought the presenter or the audience wanted to hear…though this is certainly a trend amongst many other priests: don’t say anything that might offend anyone, even if it means questioning Church teaching.
Yinekka said that the lack of clerical dress gave the game away - that was something which immediately struck me. At the start of the interview, the presenter, Mr Tubridy, asked them about this, if I remember correctly. One replied that he had considered wearing the Redemptorist cassock, but then considered what the others might do…and then apparently, thought it more appropriate to dress as if he was going to a nightclub. The point is that they were not there as Sean, Brian and Tony - they were on the show as Fr Sean, Fr Brian and Fr Tony. They would not have been on the show if they had not been ordained to the priesthood a few weeks before - their attire should have reflected the fact that they have been set apart to serve the Lord as priests. Granted, their outward appearence would not have prevented their mouths from spewing such rubbish as they did. Someone commented to me that they think it’s great to see a priest in a cassock because it suggests orthodoxy - which is why it’s extremely confusing when she sees a Redemptorist in a cassock
Regrettably, I have had the opportunity to hear all three of them preaching on several occasions since that interview. None has impressed me. These young priests should be a breath of fresh air, yet they are merely toeing the Redemptorist line, which , sadly, seems to be to keep the congregation happy at whatever cost. The preaching tends to be wishy-washy; while not always heretical, it can rarely be described as quintessentially Catholic. One of the three priests, just last month, preached about how he had no problem with women priests - that he only agreed to take the position as a vocations director with the Redemptorists after informing his superiors that he felt that women were also being called to the priesthood, and that in his capacity as a vocations director he wouldn’t turn a woman away! Another of the three, this year also, stated in a homily that we should give as much respect to each other as we do to the Blessed Sacrament because Christ is present in each one of us - we’d all have arthritis with all the genuflections; not to mention that it is simply a ridiculous statement to equate ourselves (or the presence of the Lord in us) to the Blessed Sacrament.
So, unfortunately, these priests are still acting in the same manner in which they behaved on the Late Late Show. What baffles me is that the Redemptorists are one of two orders in Ireland which are clearly defying the trend of falling vocations to religious orders - the other order, which does give me some hope, is the Dominicans. I have suggested that, if we must have Redemptorists for novenas, we consider the Transalpine Redemptorists!!
I recall seeing this interview when it was originally aired on Irish television. It was extremely disappointing to see three priests saying what they thought the presenter or the audience wanted to hear…though this is certainly a trend amongst many other priests: don’t say anything that might offend anyone, even if it means questioning Church teaching.
Yinekka said that the lack of clerical dress gave the game away - that was something which immediately struck me. At the start of the interview, the presenter, Mr Tubridy, asked them about this, if I remember correctly. One replied that he had considered wearing the Redemptorist cassock, but then considered what the others might do…and then apparently, thought it more appropriate to dress as if he was going to a nightclub. The point is that they were not there as Sean, Brian and Tony - they were on the show as Fr Sean, Fr Brian and Fr Tony. They would not have been on the show if they had not been ordained to the priesthood a few weeks before - their attire should have reflected the fact that they have been set apart to serve the Lord as priests. Granted, their outward appearence would not have prevented their mouths from spewing such rubbish as they did. Someone commented to me that they think it’s great to see a priest in a cassock because it suggests orthodoxy - which is why it’s extremely confusing when she sees a Redemptorist in a cassock
Regrettably, I have had the opportunity to hear all three of them preaching on several occasions since that interview. None has impressed me. These young priests should be a breath of fresh air, yet they are merely toeing the Redemptorist line, which , sadly, seems to be to keep the congregation happy at whatever cost. The preaching tends to be wishy-washy; while not always heretical, it can rarely be described as quintessentially Catholic. One of the three priests, just last month, preached about how he had no problem with women priests - that he only agreed to take the position as a vocations director with the Redemptorists after informing his superiors that he felt that women were also being called to the priesthood, and that in his capacity as a vocations director he wouldn’t turn a woman away! Another of the three, this year also, stated in a homily that we should give as much respect to each other as we do to the Blessed Sacrament because Christ is present in each one of us - we’d all have arthritis with all the genuflections; not to mention that it is simply a ridiculous statement to equate ourselves (or the presence of the Lord in us) to the Blessed Sacrament.
So, unfortunately, these priests are still acting in the same manner in which they behaved on the Late Late Show. What baffles me is that the Redemptorists are one of two orders in Ireland which are clearly defying the trend of falling vocations to religious orders - the other order, which does give me some hope, is the Dominicans. I have suggested that, if we must have Redemptorists for novenas, we consider the Transalpine Redemptorists!!
L
laszlo
Guest
May be to learn that having priests is more important that the advantage of celibacy. The requirement of the celibacy was good, while there was an abundance of priests. Those times are gone.
F
FightingFat
Guest
I don’t know that this is true, it’s not all about celibacy. There are more young men training in Westminster diocese than there have been for over ten years, and they are all sound, committed Catholics.
M
maurin
Guest
as is Catholic culture, the reign of Christ the King in public life. What’s the difference if the Church trades in another tradition, right? The Orthodox and the protestants are doing just fine.
N
NPC
Guest
Yes. In fairness to the three priests on the issue of celibacy, I don’t think any of them were bitter about the fact that they themselves could not marry - the question was on celibacy generally, and that is how they approached it. They were merely expressing the opinion that it should be optional, that they wouldn’t have a problem with married priests. After all, it is a discipline which could change - it’s not a change that I would personally be in favour of, because I believe there are compelling arguments in favour of priestly celibacy. Their responses to the question of contraception and sex before marriage were far more disturbing, however, given the Church’s clear and consistent teaching on both matters.
L
laszlo
Guest
In the US there are 40,000 active priest serving 80 million Catholics. The average age at ordination is 35, the average age of retirement 75 years, so 40 years of service. To keep the 40,000 number there should be 1000 ordinations each years. There are only around 400. This is overestimation, because some priests leave the service and some die early.
This is the reality. Unless miracle happens, which is unexpected, the number of the active priests will be stabilized around 16,000 in the US, way to small number serving 80 million Catholics, each 5000.
Neither the Orthodox, nor the protestants have serious problems about their priests/ministers.
P
paperwight66
Guest
A
Alexander_Roman
Guest
As an Eastern Catholic, all I can say is . . . why would any Eastern Christian or Church wish to be in communion with such liberals?
If I was surrounded by such, I would go to the Orthodox immediately. Arguments about the Papacy etc. wouldn’t deter me. I would want to get as far away from such a church with such clerics as possible.
Sorry . . .
Alex
If I was surrounded by such, I would go to the Orthodox immediately. Arguments about the Papacy etc. wouldn’t deter me. I would want to get as far away from such a church with such clerics as possible.
Sorry . . .
Alex
B
bkovacs
Guest
And many of them have just done that. This is also something I have been trying to answer for years. Why!.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
It would be nice to know who ordained these rebels. obviously they look nothing like priests. are you sure these are Catholic priests?
D
Dempsey1919
Guest
There are many confused, dissident priests in the Catholic Church, but there are also many faithful, orthodox priests.
It is depressing to watch videos like this, but it does not worry me. Whenever I see or hear things like this, I remind myself of the great priests of the Institute of Christ the King and the FSSP etc. For every dissident priest, I am sure there are two orthodox priests. Unfortunately, the media does not give much air space to faithful orthodox priests.
It is depressing to watch videos like this, but it does not worry me. Whenever I see or hear things like this, I remind myself of the great priests of the Institute of Christ the King and the FSSP etc. For every dissident priest, I am sure there are two orthodox priests. Unfortunately, the media does not give much air space to faithful orthodox priests.
S
stephe1987
Guest
The media is and has been anti-Catholic for some time now.
If you watch the news you’ll think everyone, including Catholics, hates the Church, disagrees with most of its doctrines, and that most priests are pedophiles.
Please remember that the media is looking for scandal, not truth, and if you must watch/read the news, watch/read it with that in mind.
If you watch the news you’ll think everyone, including Catholics, hates the Church, disagrees with most of its doctrines, and that most priests are pedophiles.
Please remember that the media is looking for scandal, not truth, and if you must watch/read the news, watch/read it with that in mind.
F
FightingFat
Guest
Such a true post.
It is said that these days, people want proof and question everything. In the old days they just accepted. I think the opposite could, in fact, be true. These days we are spoon fed information through the tv and the internet, and we accept it as fact. In fact we are being told what to think. We live in an age of disinformation and we need to tune out the noise sometimes and listen to the truth.
S
Shin
Guest
'After those earlier Christian priests had observed these practices for a time, God himself, through the infusion of his Holy Spirit, put into the heart of the pope then guiding the Church another law more acceptable and pleasing to him in this matter: namely, by pouring this infusion into the heart of the pope so that he established a statute in the universal Church that Christian priests, who have so holy and so worthy an office, namely, of consecrating this precious Sacrament, should by no means live in the easily contaminated, carnal delight of marriage.
And therefore, through God’s preordinance and his judgment, it has been justly ordained that priests who do not live in chastity and continence of the flesh are cursed and excommunicated before God and deserve to be deprived of their priestly office. But still, if they truthfully amend their lives with the true purpose of not sinning further, they will obtain mercy from God.
Know this too: that if some pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts. Similar things would truly happen in a spiritual way to that pope who were to go against the aforementioned preordinance and will of God and concede to priests such a license to contract marriage.
For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end. Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death.’
The Blessed Virgin Mary, ‘Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden’
. . .
People promoting or open to the idea of a change here might want to think twice. . . There is a great loss of the sense of the sacred in these times… and the sense of what purity truly is, and is required of us and the priests.
And therefore, through God’s preordinance and his judgment, it has been justly ordained that priests who do not live in chastity and continence of the flesh are cursed and excommunicated before God and deserve to be deprived of their priestly office. But still, if they truthfully amend their lives with the true purpose of not sinning further, they will obtain mercy from God.
Know this too: that if some pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts. Similar things would truly happen in a spiritual way to that pope who were to go against the aforementioned preordinance and will of God and concede to priests such a license to contract marriage.
For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end. Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death.’
The Blessed Virgin Mary, ‘Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden’
. . .
People promoting or open to the idea of a change here might want to think twice. . . There is a great loss of the sense of the sacred in these times… and the sense of what purity truly is, and is required of us and the priests.
- Status