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majick275
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those witnesses mean nothing. a handful of friends and relatives who went on to many questionable acts. the BoM is NOT true. it has been shown false by science AND faith.
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truthsilence
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I think the two of you are closet Atheists yourselves. Thats what I think. Mormonism “breeds it” I am told, and you two are a prime example. (Not that Atheist are bad peopleI think that it takes** a lot of faith without reason to believe such things even for our friend Rebecca.**
I just don’t think they should be on a Catholic board claiming to be Christians)
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Eliza10
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Excellent answer, Rebecca!
So often in Mormonism, it comes to that challenge to “have faith”. But you need both, don’t you? As you said, “…reason alone, without faith, will lead to no belief in God.” . And its so true what your RCIA teacher said: "…faith alone can cause people do believe in all sorts of things. Sometimes things that make no sense to anyone else because it is not a reasonable belief. It is believing nonsense."
…This is very wise, and the responses of both “zerinus” and “why me” completely overlook your wisdom. In their case, it is like throwing your pearls befoe swine, Rebecca.
What your RCIA teacher said about faith causing people to do all kinds of things reminds me of Joseph Smith manipulating all those women to be in his harum by coercing them to “have faith”. He told them God wanted them to do this, he challenged them to have faith, and he harrassed them with the fear of God’s wrath or eternal separation from God if they did not do what he said God told them to do.
He was just a common bully!
If only these poor women had been taught that its faith and reason. But Smith made the case, as Mormons, as why me did at the start of this thread, that its all faith. Like your RCIA teacher said, “faith-alone” can get you into all manner of things. Combine a partial truth - in this case, “faith alone” vs. both faith and reason - with a predator like Smith, who preyed on weak or vulnerable women, like young motherless or fatherless girls, and you get the disgusting life of Joseph Smith. And a religion leading many sheep away Jesus, and His Truth.
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Eliza10
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Yes - a spirit of atheism - that is also what I am sensing from Why Me and Zerinius. Do they agree with this assessment? They are here promoting faith in Mormonism, but don’t evidence any of their own faith in God.
Its an interesting idea, Truthsilence, that Mormonism breeds atheism. And I can see how if you are living in a world immersed in Mormonism, embracing an inner atheism would be a reasonable defense mechanism to develop, against having the faith-without-reason which Mormonism promotes.
Another good point.(Not that Atheist are bad people
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BartBurk
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A few years ago I had what I consider an Ah Ha! moment. Since Mormons don’t believe in any ultimate God (God had a Father, etc., etc. etc.) there is no ultimate ruler or creator of the Cosmos. As far as I can tell, Mormonism has no First Cause. Its entire basis is atheistic in that sense. I have never understood how the Mormon gods could ultimately be trusted because the Cosmos created them instead of the other way around. They could be just as easily destroyed by the Cosmos since they don’t ultimately control it.
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ApostateRLDS
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Which could explain why so many ex-Mormons become atheists.
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why_me
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And how many catholics or protestants have become atheists? I do believe many. And why?
Because some reason themselves away from the faith. As St. Paul said: It is not good to be too wise or learned.
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why_me
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Mormons pray to one Heavenly Father in the name of his son Jesus Christ. So, what is your point? I see no point.
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why_me
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Why do some exmormons become atheists? I think that answer is found in the truth claims of the lds church. They are strong truth claims and the doctrine is very complete. When a mormon becomes disengaged with the church and no longer believes in the faith, it is very difficult for him or her to embrace another faith. Many faiths come up short in their eyes.
I think that it is that simple but of course, not for all cases.
For other faiths, they loose members to atheism through reason and intellect. I am sure that Richard Dawkins has led many marginal catholics toward atheism.
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ApostateRLDS
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Or it could be that ex-Mormons are so jaded but what they see that they’re completely turned off by the idea of God or any religion. Read Steve Benson’s story on why he left Mormonism.
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Eliza10
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I have never observed a trend among Catholics and Protestnaats where many (or any) have beome atheists. Never. And I have been both Catholic and Protestant. So i can say withthe authoruity of long expereince, there is no such trend.
But when an ex-Mormon says he feels Mormonism breeds athesism, I find it an intersting observation, while it is also one I do not have the authority to make myself, having never been immersed in that community.
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Eliza10
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Amen! :clapping:
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Eliza10
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BartBurk
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That is true. But the Mormons claim God did not create anything – he only organized pre-existing material into his universe. And he came about as the Son of another God back into infinity. So Mormons really do not have a God who is First Cause and responsible for everything. When you reject Mormonism, it is easy to become an atheist when you really don’t believe in an ultimate God anyway.
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Eliza10
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Interesting. Another example of how logic and Mormonism just don’t go hand in hand. They must resort to faith-alone and burning bosoms.
They really think God had a Father, and that Father had a Father - etc.?? Wow. And then they reject the God of Moses, who revealed himself: I Am.
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why_me
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I can understand this. But as you know christians must leave their christianity behind when they become atheists. Either they are catholic or protestant when doing so, if not mormon.
It happens…people become atheists from all faiths.
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why_me
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I have given the reason in a previous post why mormons may become atheists when they leave their faith. Did you read it?
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why_me
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Not true. As I have said, mormons pray to one father in the name of Jesus Chrsit. He is the Father and he answers prayers. And he is the only one that the lds are concerned with.
By organizing existing material, He has created something out of that existing material.
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Eliza10
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So this is what you believe? What you say here, that Mormon claims are true, and you believe their doctrine to be complete? Thats not what a Catholic believes. Yet you have claimed elsewhere on this forum that you go to the Catholic Church, and that you recieve communion. So which is it? Mormon or Catholic? You cannot be both.
I have read countless stories of Mormons who have left their faith - and it is at huge cost to themselves when it is their whole family, community, life. Embracing another faith is the easy part for them. It is worth the painful ex-communication and loss of fellowship with loved ones. The latter pain is not lessened by the former, but their new-found faith is so strong they are able to make the leap and pay the price.
So I think you are wrong in your statement here.
For an athesist, it is hard to embrace another faith. If you are an atheist who is a Mormon, embracing any faith would be hard. And atheisim itself illogical.
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