"An Open Letter to Confused Catholics"

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Both men were excommunicated.
Identical overwhelming fact.
Nice attempt at blurring the line but I’ll ask again: out of the two, how many were heretics? How many denied Catholic doctrine?

If Archbishop Lefebvre were alive today, his excommunication would have been lifted as of the recent actions by Rome. Can’t say the same for Luther. There is no comparison.
 
Nice attempt at blurring the line but I’ll ask again: out of the two, how many were heretics? How many denied Catholic doctrine?

If Archbishop Lefebvre were alive today, his excommunication would have been lifted as of the recent actions by Rome. Can’t say the same for Luther. There is no comparison.
Both men are dead.
Yet, it is said:
** that M. Lefebvre died in a state of excommunication.
that Martin Luther received the Sacrament of Penance before his death.
**

You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

How long have you been a practicing Catholic?
It seems your lines are habitually blurred.
 
Disobedience is very rampant in the Church today. How does one judge whose disobedience is the most flagrant?
 
Disobedience is very rampant in the Church today. How does one judge whose disobedience is the most flagrant?
Obedience is also very rampant in the church today.
It is, by far, the best course.

When one admires a person whom the Church has deemed to be in error,
one is courting a great disaster. One can not and must not pretend to
“know better” than the Church and her teachings. Such pretense is error.
 
Oh. So disobedience of the Holy Father is a “little nothing?”
No kidding?
Yet it is a grave matter within Canon Law and the Tradition of the Church.

Interesting to see what you folks are thinking though.
Unacceptable, but interesting. Incomprehensible too, but interesting.

(I’m not aware of anyone who hated him.
Hated his disobedience, YES. Hated him? No.)
I didn’t say it was a “little nothing”, but I am saying that his single act of disobedience to Pope John Paul II by the Econe consecrations was the one, sole point of contention.

What is unacceptable and incomprehensible is that you equate that act, lamentable though it was, to an actual heresy. You cannot commute an act of disciplinary disobedience to heresy - it doesn’t work like that.
You know, this is exactly how the Lutherans talk about Martin Luther. “He never intended to split from the Church.” So, therefore, he didn’t, actually - all appearances to the contrary? 🤷
That is not how Lutherans talk about Martin Luther at all. Lutherans talk about the traditional Catholic Church being unbiblical and in error, and that Luther was a true biblical scholar who was right to break off and form his own sect. Absolutely no supporter of the SSPX talks about the Archbishop forming a new sect or about the traditional Church being unbiblical.

Archbishop Lefebvre did not spllit from the Church - that implies he formed a new church with new teachings. He did no such thing. That is the difference between Luther and the Archbishop; the former denied Catholic doctrine and disobeyed the Holy Father on even basic Catholic doctrines, the latter only disobeyed when he consecrated four bishops without John Paul II’s approval.

Like it or not, there is a marked and essential difference and the two cases are by no means equal in any sense.
 
I didn’t say it was a “little nothing”, but I am saying that his single act of disobedience to Pope John Paul II by the Econe consecrations was the one, sole point of contention.

What is unacceptable and incomprehensible is that you equate that act, lamentable though it was, to an actual heresy. You cannot commute an act of disciplinary disobedience to heresy - it doesn’t work like that.

That is not how Lutherans talk about Martin Luther at all. Lutherans talk about the traditional Catholic Church being unbiblical and in error, and that Luther was a true biblical scholar who was right to break off and form his own sect. Absolutely no supporter of the SSPX talks about the Archbishop forming a new sect or about the traditional Church being unbiblical.

Archbishop Lefebvre did not spllit from the Church - that implies he formed a new church with new teachings. He did no such thing. That is the difference between Luther and the Archbishop; the former denied Catholic doctrine and disobeyed the Holy Father on even basic Catholic doctrines, the latter only disobeyed when he consecrated four bishops without John Paul II’s approval.

Like it or not, there is a marked and essential difference and the two cases are by no means equal in any sense.
M. Lefebvre was excommunicated.
M. Luther was excommunicated.

Therein, a perfect parallel.
That’s the end of the story.
 
No it is not the end of the story. His Holiness first freed the Latin Mass from censure by the Bishops and then lifted the excommunications of Archbishop Lefebvre the Great’s (ora pro nobis) spiritual children the 4 bishops he consecrated, and he, the Holy Father, has entered into Doctrinal talks with the representatives of these bishops.

No, not the end of the story. Merely the middle of the story.
 
M. Lefebvre was excommunicated.
M. Luther was excommunicated.

Therein, a perfect parallel.
That’s the end of the story.
Playing by your game:

M. Luther was excommunicated
St. Athanasius was excommunicated.

A perfect parallel, no?

I guess that’s the end of the story too. St. Athanasius was no better than Martin Luther.
 
PS - I view grave disobedience as grave disobedience.
So should you and all.
Since there are times where disobedience is not only allowed, but necessary, you cannot look on it as intrinsically wrong. Therefore, the Archbishop, or anyone else, can disobey the pope without committing a sin if there is a grave reason to do so. Such was the Archbishop’s case, as one can see from everything he did and his writings.
 
M. Lefebvre was excommunicated.
M. Luther was excommunicated.

Therein, a perfect parallel.
That’s the end of the story.
Wrong beyond wrong. As has been said, Saint Athanasius was excommunicated as well. According to your logic, he is as reprehensible as the Archbishop.

I pray you can overcome your hatred with charity one day.
 
Playing by your game:

M. Luther was excommunicated
St. Athanasius was excommunicated.

A perfect parallel, no?

I guess that’s the end of the story too. St. Athanasius was no better than Martin Luther.
No game.

St Anastatius was excommuincated and banished. Then he was restored.
Martin Luther was excommunicated and has been said to become penitent before death.

M. Lefebvre was excommunicated and died in that state. He remains in that state.
If there is a change to his state, we will learn it from the Vatican, not from a fanclub.
 
Wrong beyond wrong. As has been said, Saint Athanasius was excommunicated as well. According to your logic, he is as reprehensible as the Archbishop.

I pray you can overcome your hatred with charity one day.
I hate no one. However I do hate sin.
I hope you can accept TRUTH, the sooner the better.
 
Since there are times where disobedience is not only allowed, but necessary, you cannot look on it as intrinsically wrong. Therefore, the Archbishop, or anyone else, can disobey the pope without committing a sin if there is a grave reason to do so. Such was the Archbishop’s case, as one can see from everything he did and his writings.
The archbishop’s ROLE in the Church demanded he obey the Holy Father.
He did not do so. He created inordinate scandal for no good reason.
His actions are indefensible and they speak for themselves.

How do I know that?
I’m a faithful Catholic - that’s how.
 
I hate no one. However I do hate sin.
I hope you can accept TRUTH, the sooner the better.
I do accept the truth - that’s why I am not railing against the Archbishop nor the SSPX as if they were the pope-hating heretics you make them out to be.
 
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