An open letter to Europe: "Are you nuts?"

[fix]

…

Europe is Dying

It is your abandonment of these beliefs that has created the gap between Europe and the United States. You have ceased to be a Judeo-Christian culture, and have become instead a secular culture. And a secular culture quickly goes from being “un-religious” to anti-religious. Indeed, your hostility to the basic concepts of Judaism and Christianity has literally been written into your new European Union constitution, despite the Pope’s heroic efforts to the contrary. Your rate of marriage is at an all-time low, and the number of abortions in Europe is at an all-time high. Indeed, your birth rates are so far below replacement levels that in 30 years or so there will be 70 million fewer Europeans alive than are alive today. Europe is literally dying. And of the children you do manage to produce, all too few will be raised in stable, two-parent households.

Your economy is stagnant because your government regulators make it justabout impossible for your entrepreneurs to succeed - except by fleeing to the United States, where we welcome them and celebrate their success. And your armed forces are a joke. With the notable exception of Great Britain, you no longer have the military strength to defend yourselves. Alas, you no longer have the will to defend yourselves. What worries me even more than all this is your willful blindness. You refuse to see that it is you, not we Americans, who have abandoned Western Civilization. It’s worrisome because, to tell you the truth, we need each other. Western Civilization today is under siege, from radical Islam on the outside and from our own selfish hedonism within. It’s going to take all of our effort, our talent, our creativity and, above all, our will to pull through. So take a good, hard look at yourselves and see what your own future will be if you don’t change course. And please, stop sneering at America long enough to understand it. After all, Western Civilization was your gift to us, and you ought to be proud of what we Americans have made of it.

read the rest at…catholiccitizens.org/press/contentview.asp?c=21241

 

[Henrico]

Flabbergasted by this verbal diarrhoea emanating from the land of Jerry Springer, where Catholics always have been second rate citizens, where CCC seems to stand for Corruption, Commercialisation and Competition.
Where money is worshipped before the Lord.
The worst case of psychological projection I have ever encountered.
Our marriage rates are lower because we marry less often.
To point out our military weakness is funny coming from a country that needs to globalise its war, in order not to loose it.
We all have our own cross to bear.
America certainly has enough things to be proud of, but this post is not one of them.

These uninformed generalisations equal hate mail.
None of us can hide the scars of our past. You do not elevate yourself by lowering others, and the irony of the ratrace is, that even if you win, you are still a rat.

We do not share your fear that soon, there won’t be enough people in Europe. One should read Malthus.

Every form of human organisation carries deep within itself, the seed of it’s own destruction. We live in an age, where we think we solve problems by assigning blame.
Let’s pray for a better understanding.

In Jesus

Henrico

 

[Norwich]

This, from a guy who obviously lives in Illinios, was a member of the Reagan administration and to add insult to injury was part of, or an advisor to the CIA. Need I say more? Why does the word senility keep coming to mind? Sounds to me like he’s bidding for a job at Fox or similar.

p.s. If the UK economy is in ruins, have you tried to buy any sterling recently? with the state of the dollar at present, we can buy more with Monopoly money over here. (Hotel on Park Lane for anybody?)

 

[Franze]

I am something tired about americans comments about Europe, in USA, the anti-catholicism is in many places a law, organisations like catholics for the right to decide are financied by american people, the amount of abortions in USA in these 30 years,is the same that spanish are now in Spain, the disasters in the Catholic Church in USA are great, sexual abuses, seminars with homosexuals, nuns that criticize the Pope and the Church, bishops that remove organisations faithful to the Pope like legionaries of Christ. In my country there are less people in the churches, but there aren´t people like John Kerry, and USA is supporting now a regime, Saudi Arabia that have built huge amount of mosques in many places and have spreaded wahabbism and islamism in the world, but for Bush and Kerry, they´re moderates, and continue destroying Europe. And well, the most important pornographic maganzines in the world are americans, well we have problems in Europe, it´s undoubtable, but USA isn´t golden either.

 

[gilliam]

I am not sure why some Americans feel the need to bash other countries that are not bashing us.

I could understand the frustration with France and Germany prior to the Liberation of Iraq. But those days are gone. What is past is past.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Henrico:

We do not share your fear that soon, there won’t be enough people in Europe. One should read Malthus.

I have no idea who “we” is but the church does not share your degree of comfort - recent reports indicate that in 25 years or less specific nations in Europe will have their ethnic populations simply disappear due to falling birth rates.

"…World population growth continues to slow down, with a projected figure of 9.1 billion in 2050, up from today’s 6.5 billion. The latest forecasts were published Feb. 24 by the Population Division of the U.N. Department of Economic and Social Affairs.

In a study, “World Population Prospects: The 2004 Revision,” the U.N. agency foresees that almost all growth will take place in the less developed regions, where the actual population of 5.3 billion is expected to reach 7.8 billion in 2050. By contrast, the population of the more developed regions will remain mostly unchanged, at 1.2 billion. In fact, the report calculates that currently 95% of population growth is taking place in the developing world.

The Population Division sets out a number of forecasts for the future. According to the medium variant, which is held to be the most probable, by 2050 the population of the more developed countries as a whole would be declining slowly by about 1 million persons a year and that of the developing world would be adding 35 million annually.

But, the report adds, estimates of future population growth depend on how fertility rates develop. The current fertility rate stands at 2.65 children per woman. This is about half the level of 50 years ago. And over the next half-century, in the medium variant, global fertility is projected to decline further to 2.05 children per woman. Adding half a child to this would result in a world population of 10.6 billion in 2050. And a rate of half a child less would lead to a population of 7.6 billion by midcentury…"

"…In the 44 developed countries, which account for 19% of the world population, the fertility rate is now running at only 1.56 children per woman. The report also notes that in 15 countries, mostly located in Southern and Eastern Europe, fertility rates are now below 1.3 children per woman, a level so low as to be “unprecedented in human history.”

The report observes that since 1990-1995, fertility decline has been the rule among most developed countries. Moreover, the few increases recorded, such as those in Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and the United States, have been small. Yet, in spite of these current low levels, the United Nations expects that that trend of declining fertility will be reversed and it is projected to increase slowly to 1.84 children per woman in 2045-2050.

Even so, the low fertility in the developed world will lead to a situation where the population of 51 countries or areas, including Germany, Italy, Japan, the Baltic states and most of the members of the Commonwealth of Independent States, is expected to be lower in 2050 than in 2005. "

www.zenit.org
Code: ZE05031204
Date: 2005-03-12

 

[Fitz]

Henrico:

These uninformed generalisations equal hate mail.

Henrico

Henrico, this was a very old post that not a one of us responded to back on Dec. 1st. I think we all realized it was a rant. However, you found it as old as it is. How far back do you look for old posts? May I ask why?

I agree that the author was angry. He wrote it in November when the election apparently had just taken place. Europe was alive with all types of hate mail to quote you about us as stupid Americans. We read it and some responded with articles equally as accusatory. That is all this is. For you to judge us on a stupid post no one would even honor with a response speaks to you too.

By the way, most of us disclose where we live. Why don’t you? It is pertinent sometimes. I always wonder if some have something to hide or to be ashamed of. Or perhaps they like to be invisible and like a spy.

God Bless you, wherever that may be…

 

[Fitz]

Henrico:

Flabbergasted by this verbal diarrhoea emanating from the land of Jerry Springer, where Catholics always have been second rate citizens, where CCC seems to stand for Corruption, Commercialisation and Competition.
Where money is worshipped before the Lord.
The worst case of psychological projection I have ever encountered.

Henrico

And this isn’t hate mail?

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Sure looks that way to me.

 

[Henrico]

I certainly admit to anger on my part, and speaking out prematurely on the subject. Having started browsing the site just the other day, I saw the title and read the post, unaware of the date of posting. Sticks and stones and mudslinging.
I realise now it would be preposterous to have American Catholic apologists arguing with European Catholic apologists.
I apologise for confusing defending with attacking.
The fact that nobody found it necessary to react initially, can be interpreted in different ways. It does say something about all of us. With no reaction whatsoever, how do p.e. aspiring converts looking for information know, that this is not the position taken on this site. ?

Nonetheless, the fact that somebody would claim that a whole continent has lost faith, has fallen from grace and is dying, is so outrageous, that in my view it warrants at least one reaction. I am sorry, I replied in the same tone and manner the original post was written.
As to projections, statistics and declining numbers, there is the difference between quality and quantity.

It takes all kinds to make a world. It only takes one kind to unmake it.

p.s. I am a cradle Roman Catholic from Maastricht ( The Netherlands ) currently residing in Toronto, Canada.
Certainly not trying to hide or spy.

 

[Fitz]

Henrico:

The fact that nobody found it necessary to react initially, can be interpreted in different ways. It does say something about all of us. With no reaction whatsoever, how do p.e. aspiring converts looking for information know, that this is not the position taken on this site. ?

Let’s just say that sometimes we ignore ridiculous posts because we get tired of fighting with obviously ridiculous posts. Other times people fight the poster, but then it gets ugly and people can get suspended. If you look even farther back you will find countless arguements about this very topic. We call people who come to argue -Trolls. Then we get chastised by the moderators. So sometimes we just ignore. You found one we ignored. I personally love Europe, but tire of the name calling that they often toss at us. I realize that politics gets ugly. However I come here to be a Catholic poster, and that is why I almost didn’t even respond to you. I caved in when I saw the date of the original post. I really felt you needed to know that if more of us agreed there would have been more responses. There is a good reason some posts die a natural death. Welcome to the forums Herrico, and enjoy the lively debate.

 

[Fitz]

Oh yeah, glad you are not a spy and that you have a real home you can admit to. There are some posters that never admit, and they are truely Trolls.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Henrico:

The fact that nobody found it necessary to react initially, can be interpreted in different ways. It does say something about all of us. With no reaction whatsoever, how do p.e. aspiring converts looking for information know, that this is not the position taken on this site. ?

No it does not say anything about all of us; you may if you wish take it as a reflection on yourself, but for someone who has joined the forum so recently and who has already made one faux pas, it might be worthwhile to hang around and become more familiar with the place overall before jumping off into conclusions you really haven’t been here long enough to have a basis for.

Anyone familiar with forum postings-- particularly in a forum the size of this one, in so many categories ,would have the good sense I’m sure, to not judge anything by one solitary post - in every forum there are posts which are read with no comments, then there are long threads where everyone and their nieghbor weighs in, it’s in the internet world of forums. I doubt too many people are so rash as to presume that reading one post out of the number here indicates much of anything.

Henrico:

Nonetheless, the fact that somebody would claim that a whole continent has lost faith, has fallen from grace and is dying, is so outrageous, that in my view it warrants at least one reaction. I am sorry, I replied in the same tone and manner the original post was written.

Well one Cardinal detects something going on and it’s only about the 6th one I’ve read from a curial official who says the same thing, so there are those who see things a bit differently than yourself perhaps.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=42943&highlight=aloud

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fitz:

And this isn’t hate mail?

For someone who has been here all of “ten minutes”, I’d say rather presumptous and self righteous.

 

[Elizabeth_B]

St. Paul tells us:

Avoid foolish and ignorant debates, for you know that they breed quarrels. A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth, and that they may return to their senses out of the devil’s snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will. 2 Tim 2:23-26

Some threads are best left unanswered.

 

[Werner]

HagiaSophia:

Even so, the low fertility in the developed world will lead to a situation where the population of 51 countries or areas, including Germany, Italy, Japan, the Baltic states and most of the members of the Commonwealth of Independent States, is expected to be lower in 2050 than in 2005. "

In Germany we have 1/3 of the US population in an area smaller than Montana, so we actually don’t have any angst with the thought of our population in 50 years being lower than today.

Werner

 

[springbreeze]

Dear friends

Not a single racist will find themselves on the path to salvation.

Racism and suspicion of other cultures is a sure fire way to cause wars and hatred amongst people.

Why do I say this post is hate fuelled and racist?..because it seeks to poke the finger of blame when the person that points the blame lives in a culture that follows the same secular machine that European countries do. It doesn’t make secularism right but it surely makes the accusor wrong to accuse when they are guilty themselves. The USA will in a slower fashion due to it’s sheer size witness a diminshing birth rate in the coming years and all of the other problems the Europeans face if it too continues to follow this secular flood that is happening everywhere.

Therefore if the USA is a guilty of secularisation of society as European countires are (infact secularisation is happening globally and the global birth rate is falling) then what is the motive for such an attack?

To fuel hate between nations…there cannot be any other explanation for it and therefore such speeches and divisionary thought schools should be ignored.

All nations should seek to have alliances with each other and seek Christ Jesus’ peace in this world.

We are a global community and a human family in Christ Jesus, we all hold responsibility to live the Gospel message and each and every country on this earth does not live as close to that message as it should do. We each as individuals and as nations have a duty therefore, to fight against the machine of secularism and unlawful laws, by not partaking in them ourselves and living by the Gospel gifted to us by our Truine God. A law that is redundant and is no longer used tends to get written out of the statute books. ( In the UK… such silly laws as it is lawful to carry a sword on a Sunday, this law is now defunct)

This does not start with accusation, this starts with the individual and one person can change the world, Christ Jesus did so and many of His disciples who have faithfully followed Him and now enjoy the communion of the Saints.

Strive to be a saint yourself and your nation will be raised above this secular monster that divides people, families and nations. It may feel like fighting to swim against the tide and a battle that seems to have no victory, but we must fight to swim against the tide, Christ Jesus is our Eternal Victory.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa

 

[fix]

They are the beliefs that made Europe itself the glory of Western civilization and - not coincidentally - ignited the greatest outpouring of art, literature, music and scientific discovery the world has ever known including Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Shakespeare, Bach, Isaac Newton and Descartes.

Europe is Dying

It is your abandonment of these beliefs that has created the gap between Europe and the United States. You have ceased to be a Judeo-Christian culture, and have become instead a secular culture. And a secular culture quickly goes from being “un-religious” to anti-religious. Indeed, your hostility to the basic concepts of Judaism and Christianity has literally been written into your new European Union constitution, despite the Pope’s heroic efforts to the contrary. Your rate of marriage is at an all-time low, and the number of abortions in Europe is at an all-time high. Indeed, your birth rates are so far below replacement levels that in 30 years or so there will be 70 million fewer Europeans alive than are alive today. Europe is literally dying. And of the children you do manage to produce, all too few will be raised in stable, two-parent households.

Your economy is stagnant because your government regulators make it justabout impossible for your entrepreneurs to succeed - except by fleeing to the United States, where we welcome them and celebrate their success. And your armed forces are a joke. With the notable exception of Great Britain, you no longer have the military strength to defend yourselves. Alas, you no longer have the will to defend yourselves. What worries me even more than all this is your willful blindness. You refuse to see that it is you, not we Americans, who have abandoned Western Civilization. It’s worrisome because, to tell you the truth, we need each other. Western Civilization today is under siege, from radical Islam on the outside and from our own selfish hedonism within. It’s going to take all of our effort, our talent, our creativity and, above all, our will to pull through. So take a good, hard look at yourselves and see what your own future will be if you don’t change course. And please, stop sneering at America long enough to understand it. After all, Western Civilization was your gift to us, and you ought to be proud of what we Americans have made of it.

Seems fair to me.

 

[HagiaSophia]

fix:

Seems fair to me.

Ditto

 

[Pace]

They are the beliefs that made Europe itself the glory of Western civilization and - not coincidentally - ignited the greatest outpouring of art, literature, music and scientific discovery the world has ever known including Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Shakespeare, Bach, Isaac Newton and Descartes.

…and Lars von Trier, whose film Dogville seems to make a convincing case that America now has a monopoly on (fallen) Human Nature and that the world would be a better place if she were put out of her misery. So he seems to be saying that America has become synonymous with sin itself; that we are sinning from our very nature.

And how has this happened? Could it be precisely through our habit of film criticism; our addiction to saying “we see, we see”?

What do you think?