An Open Table?

[SC_Peach]

I’m not aware of a community with such a requirement, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there were one. If a community considers both communion and baptism to be something less than sacraments as catholics define the word then it makes some level of sense.

And as a ‘newbie’ learning about the Catholic church, I’ve learned this to be correct. According to my old church, it’s symbolism and what Jesus required us to do. Again I’m referring to baptism in Christ, not baptism water as requirement

Consider that Jesus clearly commanded believers to be baptised. Since protestants believe in obdeying Jesus (to their understanding of His comands), then it would be reasonable to limit participation in a memorial meal to those who have displayed obedience to this command of his.

No?

With that being said, what are the children in the Catholic church taught in regards to Communion? We learned that’s what Jesus did at the Last Supper and that’s what he told us to do. No explanation as to when we could, what age, anything. My brother who was around 8 at the time, was a very active little boy in the church, as were several youngsters. Bless their hearts, they were really heartbroken.

 

[SC_Peach]

I just found this site.

spiritrestoration.org/Church/Denominations/Who_can_take_Communion.htm

Ok, thanks. That answered the question as to what baptism we were referring to. Interesting site, BTW.

 

[SyCarl]

The Presbyterian Church in Canada invites members of any Christian Church to Communion.

It is for the individual to judge himself as to whether he is worthy to receive.

But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
(1 Corinthians 11:28-31 NASB)

 

[Cat]

Thank you!

It was mainline Protestant churches.

This makes sense. However, the mainline churches are losing members at an alarming rate, and so I think you will probably find quite a few mainline denoms who are relaxing all their old rules to appear more tolerant and open.

What we’re seeing in the evangelical churches is a de-emphasis on both baptism and communion. In our last evangelical church (the one that kicked us out), they did communion four times a year, and it was always in the evening when the least amount of people would be there. In seven years, we saw two baptismal services.

We’ve read articles arguing in favor of getting rid of “medievalism” in evangelical churches.

We’re seeing more churches eliminating “rituals”. They don’t want to embarrass people who have had no exposure at all to Christian ritual. They want to be “open” and “welcoming” to “seekers.” (It’s called “seeker-friendly worship.”) Think about it–if you’ve NEVER been exposed to church before–and there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who qualify!–how weird it must be to watch people getting dunked in a big tank of water, or having water poured over their head! And how weird to watch people eat a small piece of matzoh and drink a tiny doll’s cup of Welch’s grape juice! This is like some sort of “Raccoon Ritual” from The Honeymooners! It scares “seekers” away!

And then there’s the opposite approach–some evangelicals are going the other way and bringing in candles, lectio divina, chant, total silence, confessions, etc.–in an attempt to attract all those who are seeking “roots” and “rituals!”

But there are less of the “ritual” evangelical churches than there are of the “non-ritual” evangelical churches. Most evangelical churches are doing just what their names suggests–getting rid of ANYTHING that they think will scare seekers away from Jesus. And that’s why I think you’ll find that evangelical churches–if they still have communion services, will not put up a barrier between communion and people.

Scary, isn’t it? My husband and I believe that it’s only a matter of time when “marriage” will be done away with in evangelical churches, since it’s just a “ritual of man” after all.

 

[Paul3144]

If you’re a Baptist, can you weigh in on this?

Sure. Our official policy is baptized believers only should participate. However, we don’t actively deny Communion to visiting members of Pedobaptist churches.

My pastor does make comments about receiving unworthily and that we should have an examined conscience beforehand. He also states that unbelievers should not partake.

Hope this helps!

 

[kalt]

Sure. Our official policy is baptized believers only should participate. However, we don’t actively deny Communion to visiting members of Pedobaptist churches.

My pastor does make comments about receiving unworthily and that we should have an examined conscience beforehand. He also states that unbelievers should not partake.

Hope this helps!

Catholics aren’t supposed to recieve Communion in other denominations. I’m wondering, though, if Catholics are allowed to recieve in Baptist churches, particularly in the Southern Baptist denomination.

I believe that some denominations don’t accept infant baptism, and so don’t agree that Catholics have been validly baptized. Just wondering if the Southern Baptist denomination (or any other Baptist denomination) is one of them.

Thank you.

 

[Pokedaughter]

Some protestant churches feel a person must be a member of that particular denomination to partake in communion. (Conservative Protestant Churches not sure exactly which ones. Maybe Church of Christ, some Baptist churches)

Some feel you must have made a profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour but you do not have to be a member of that denomination to partake in communion in that particular church. (Most Southern Baptist churches which is the denomination in which I was raised and most non-denomination Evangelical churches, and most Assemblies of God)

Some feel that the experience of communion may at some point lead you to a faith in Christ and therefore all can partake, even if not a believer in Christ (United Methodist, in which I have attended)

I have never heard about having to be “baptized” to partake in communion except for maybe Church of Christ since this denomination believes a person must be Baptized to receive salvation and the others previously mentioned do not.

I don’t know about Anglican and Episcopalian (sp?) faiths, or church of God and all the other Protestant churches not mentioned.

 

[PJM]

=kalt;5103123]Many Protestant denominations say that they have an open table. They invite all baptized Christians to participate.

I have a question about that, that many someone here can help me with.

These same denominations say that baptism is an outward symbol of something that has already happened internally. It makes it sound that people are Christians as soon as they believe, and that baptism doesn’t have a real effect on the person.

So I wonder why, then, that the open table is closed to believers who just haven’t been baptized yet?

What is the reasoning behind not sharing the eucharist with some believers?

There must be a verse that covers this.

“Open table?” Luthers revolt and one New true? Church 10 roughly the year 1600, has today grown to some 30,000 seperate churches, with seperate beliefs and practices.

The idea, the Theology, of restricting communion to like minded folk is a 2000 year old Catholic Faith Practice.

Why? One who does not hold our understanding and belief in the Real Presence of Jesus, would in Pauls words, bring condemnation upon themselves.(1Cor. 11:27).

Love and prayers,

 

[JonNC]

“Open table?” Luthers revolt and one New true? Church 10 roughly the year 1600, has today grown to some 30,000 seperate churches, with seperate beliefs and practices.

The idea, the Theology, of restricting communion to like minded folk is a 2000 year old Catholic Faith Practice.

Why? One who does not hold our understanding and belief in the Real Presence of Jesus, would in Pauls words, bring condemnation upon themselves.(1Cor. 11:27).

Love and prayers,

The LCMS practices close communion, for the reasons you state.

Luther is responsible, at least in part for Lutherans. The other separated churches, regardless of number, are their own responsibility, not Luther’s. Most reject much of what Luther taught. They’ll tell you if you ask them.

Jon

 

[MarkBrown]

Catholics aren’t supposed to recieve Communion in other denominations. I’m wondering, though, if Catholics are allowed to recieve in Baptist churches, particularly in the Southern Baptist denomination.

I believe that some denominations don’t accept infant baptism, and so don’t agree that Catholics have been validly baptized. Just wondering if the Southern Baptist denomination (or any other Baptist denomination) is one of them.

Thank you.

About Catholics recieving in a Baptist Church. Depends. Each Baptist church is independent. The SBC does not stand for South Baptist Church, it is Southern Baptist Convention. A loose confederation. Each church, as long as it stays roughly in a baptist dogma, can do what it wants. Some Baptist will let a Catholic recieve, others will have a closed communion, I have heard the pastor say “valid Baptism”, meaning after belief with full immersion in the name of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If a Catholic or anyone (Anglican) who was baptized as an infant wanted to join a Baptist church, they would have to be re-baptized. We would say “re-baptized”, the Baptist would not recognize a baptism of an infant or without full immersion.

Many Baptist churches now have baby dedications of new borns and other small children.
The ones I have seen, I tongue in cheek teased my baptist friends and called them infant baptism without water.

I was a southern baptist for 40 years, taught children adults etc and was a minister for 4 years. Prior to becoming an Anglican. Just some background.

Dcn Mark

 

[kalt]

About Catholics recieving in a Baptist Church. Depends. Each Baptist church is independent. The SBC does not stand for South Baptist Church, it is Southern Baptist Convention. A loose confederation. Each church, as long as it stays roughly in a baptist dogma, can do what it wants. Some Baptist will let a Catholic recieve, others will have a closed communion, I have heard the pastor say “valid Baptism”, meaning after belief with full immersion in the name of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Who determined (and determines) what Baptist dogma is?

If a Catholic or anyone (Anglican) who was baptized as an infant wanted to join a Baptist church, they would have to be re-baptized. We would say “re-baptized”, the Baptist would not recognize a baptism of an infant or without full immersion.

Many Baptist churches now have baby dedications of new borns and other small children.
The ones I have seen, I tongue in cheek teased my baptist friends and called them infant baptism without water.

Why do they have a dedication? I’m thinking that if they think they child can’t be Baptized because he hasn’t decided that for himself, how can he dedicate himself at the same age?

I was a southern baptist for 40 years, taught children adults etc and was a minister for 4 years. Prior to becoming an Anglican. Just some background.

Would you say that the Southern Baptist church is anti-Catholic? I ask, because I’ve found that IRL, I’ve found that the Baptists I know get angry when talking about Catholicism. Others don’t like the CC, but Baptists seem to have a special hatred of it.
Did you see the same thing from within the Baptist Church?

Dcn Mark

 

[4Squarebaby]

Why do they have a dedication? I’m thinking that if they think they child can’t be Baptized because he hasn’t decided that for himself, how can he dedicate himself at the same age?

A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families and God parents, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God’s will and to raise that child according to God’s Word and God’s ways. Like the baptism it is an outward ceremony as a sign to the rest of the community. The immersion of water baptism for a believer in Christ is symbolic, not necessary for salvation in those denominations which don’t routinely baptize children

 

[kalt]

A Baby Dedication is a ceremony in which believing parents, and sometimes entire families and God parents, make a commitment before the Lord to submit a child to God’s will and to raise that child according to God’s Word and God’s ways. Like the baptism it is an outward ceremony as a sign to the rest of the community. The immersion of water baptism for a believer in Christ is symbolic, not necessary for salvation in those denominations which don’t routinely baptize children

How can one person submit another person to God’s will? Can one person force faith on another?

I think the parents can dedicate themselves to teaching the baby their faith.

Maybe this ceremony is just poorly named.

The baby isn’t dedicating himself to God, the parents are dedicating themselves to raising their child in the faith.

 

[MarkBrown]

Kalt asked

“Who determined (and determines) what Baptist dogma is?”

In the 16th century, opposing the Catholic Church. Then
opposing Anglicanism and then Presbyterianism. Baptist
in the USA actually come from the CofE. They originally
differed in church government, wanting congregationalism.

The local congregation determines most of what it believes
and spells it out in their by laws. The SBC does have a
Convention document called the SBC Faith and Message.
It outlines core beliefs such as Virgin Birth, resurrection etc
that all congregations have to believe to be in the convention.
Each year the SBC has a convention to vote on by laws, etc
but none of the votes are binding upon the local congregations.
The local churches are free to believe what they want as long
as it can be supported by scripture.

Kalt asked
“Why do they have a dedication? I’m thinking that if they think they child can’t be Baptized because he hasn’t decided that for himself, how can he dedicate himself at the same age?”

Why indeed? I never got a satisfactory answer to my questions. It is the same process and thinking as those who baptize their children. I have been told it is to follow the command to “raise up you children in the ways of the Lord.” The command does not
have a requirement for a ceremony, so why do it? They even give out certificates and some give candles to the fathers. But it is not the same as what the padeos do in their church.

Kalt asked

“Would you say that the Southern Baptist church is anti-Catholic? I ask, because I’ve found that IRL, I’ve found that the Baptists I know get angry when talking about Catholicism. Others don’t like the CC, but Baptists seem to have a special hatred of it.
Did you see the same thing from within the Baptist Church?”

No. Not overall. I know some Catholics think rejecting the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church is anti catholic, but it is not. I have heard individuals who are anti-catholic, but many baptist are anti-anything especially since they do not really research other beliefs. My last church was anti-holiness church. I never realized that until about a year into the pastorate. I have seen anti-protestant priest and catholics, but I would not say the Catholic Church is anti-protestant.

The individuals who are most anti-catholic are former catholics or the independent Fundy Baptist. But again, I was told by an IFB pastor I was going to hell for being a SBCer.

Hope it helps

Dcn Mark

 

[4Squarebaby]

The individuals who are most anti-catholic are former catholics or the independent Fundy Baptist. But again, I was told by an IFB pastor I was going to hell for being a SBCer.

Hope it helps

Dcn Mark

That is what I found in my church also. In most cases they just found the Catholic church lacking something for their personal walk.

 

[PJM]

=MarkBrown;5114685]About Catholics recieving in a Baptist Church. Depends. Each Baptist church is independent. The SBC does not stand for South Baptist Church, it is Southern Baptist Convention. A loose confederation. Each church, as long as it stays roughly in a baptist dogma, can do what it wants. Some Baptist will let a Catholic recieve, others will have a closed communion, I have heard the pastor say “valid Baptism”, meaning after belief with full immersion in the name of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

If a Catholic or anyone (Anglican) who was baptized as an infant wanted to join a Baptist church, they would have to be re-baptized. We would say “re-baptized”, the Baptist would not recognize a baptism of an infant or without full immersion.

Many Baptist churches now have baby dedications of new borns and other small children.
The ones I have seen, I tongue in cheek teased my baptist friends and called them infant baptism without water.

I was a southern baptist for 40 years, taught children adults etc and was a minister for 4 years. Prior to becoming an Anglican. Just some background.

Dcn Mark

Don, thanks for the Prosrestant slant on this topic.

**The Catholic position is that Catholics may and can ONLY receive Holy Communion in a CATHOLIC CHURCH! end of discussion:thumbsup:

This is precisely because only in the Catholic Tradition (no exceptions) does one have the direct Apostolic Succession necessary to effect The Sacrament. Only Cathoics Bishops and Priest have this charism, nobody else.**

 

[Paul3144]

This is precisely because only in the Catholic Tradition (no exceptions) does one have the direct Apostolic Succession necessary to effect The Sacrament. Only Cathoics Bishops and Priest have this charism, nobody else.

Catholics also believe Orthodox have valid AS.