An Out Of Touch Catechist

[palmas85]

Gregorian Chant is an integral part of the history of the Catholic Church and has been for centuries. While I wouldn’t play it every day or throughout the entire class, I mean how many classes do you remember from your school years where music was softly playing as you walked in the door? I think it would be good experience for the kids to hear it from time to time, and learn what the basic chants are and what they represent. It wouldn’t hurt them at all and some of them might even like it. , to the utter horror of liberals everywhere I might add.

Kids are like everyone else. Some will find it fascinating and some will hate it. But it is part of the churches rich cultural heritage and should not be ignored in favor of an all contemporary musical format just because some kids MIGHT not like or appreciate it…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

There is little that annoys me more than the assumption that kids (or any ‘labeled’ group, since that appears to be all most people do today, label people and put them into some sort of compartment) will ‘perform’ in some kind of lemming like way given this book, music, etc. etc.

With all due respect to Orion, trying to “be” or “appear” COOL, trying to cater to the ASSUMED desires of ANY group, is NOT the way to go.

Why not? It’s dishonest and it’s disrespectful, that’s why. Christian rap may have its place in entertainment, but it isn’t at Mass and it isn’t at school. Like it or not (and most don’t and won’t, never did even in the ‘good old days’ either), religious education–in fact, ANY education–isn’t ENTERTAINMENT. It is about knowledge, and knowledge requires THOUGHT and EFFORT–that dreaded word, WORK.

We have tanked SAT scores and functional illiteracy at record highs because we’ve spent 40 years trying to ENTERTAIN our children and make learning FUN. While most of us (I HOPE) now that we’ve grown a bit older and wiser realize that even dull old work can have its elements of fun once we have mastered the work elements themselves and can then be creative, these poor kids, brought up on a steady diet of “if Johnny isn’t learning, people haven’t made Johnny’s learning FUN ENOUGH”, don’t need mistaken ‘fun’ piled on mistaken ‘fun’. They need to learn that they have to WORK first and have the fun later. 7th grade is still better than 11th or 12th, or (heaven help them) when they’re 25 and still not able to get through an entry level job with fries.

It is time to stop catering to children as though THEY were the educators. They aren’t. It’s time to stop being the “cool one”, it’s time to stop the frantic fun and games, it’s time that diversity actually became real diversity. . .instead of making school more like a video game, life more like a sitcom, and decision making revolving solely around clothes-goods-boy/girlfriend, let’s have them actually having to learn academics, skills, or interpersonal relationships with family and society, so that they can function as rational, capable human beings instead of the legends in their own minds that too many have become.

The kids think that adults are narrow minded. Well, let them show us how OPEN MINDED kids are–able to listen to, among other things, Gregorian chant. Able to stick to a subject until it’s mastered (if they can do it for a video game, they can do it with anything else). I really think that if we raised our expectations, the kids would meet them. Shouldn’t we give them the chance?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Oh for goodness sake, the director is wrong!!! it was especially wrong to embarrass you in front of everybody else that way.

Nothing wrong with chant in the background, or even using some for your opening. I’ve used it to calm and soothe toddlers into a nap. I bet if you treat them as if you expect them to like it, they will.

 

[Orionthehunter]

There is little that annoys me more than the assumption that kids (or any ‘labeled’ group, since that appears to be all most people do today, label people and put them into some sort of compartment) will ‘perform’ in some kind of lemming like way given this book, music, etc. etc.

With all due respect to Orion, trying to “be” or “appear” COOL, trying to cater to the ASSUMED desires of ANY group, is NOT the way to go.

Why not? It’s dishonest and it’s disrespectful, that’s why. Christian rap may have its place in entertainment, but it isn’t at Mass and it isn’t at school. Like it or not (and most don’t and won’t, never did even in the ‘good old days’ either), religious education–in fact, ANY education–isn’t ENTERTAINMENT. It is about knowledge, and knowledge requires THOUGHT and EFFORT–that dreaded word, WORK.

We have tanked SAT scores and functional illiteracy at record highs because we’ve spent 40 years trying to ENTERTAIN our children and make learning FUN. While most of us (I HOPE) now that we’ve grown a bit older and wiser realize that even dull old work can have its elements of fun once we have mastered the work elements themselves and can then be creative, these poor kids, brought up on a steady diet of “if Johnny isn’t learning, people haven’t made Johnny’s learning FUN ENOUGH”, don’t need mistaken ‘fun’ piled on mistaken ‘fun’. They need to learn that they have to WORK first and have the fun later. 7th grade is still better than 11th or 12th, or (heaven help them) when they’re 25 and still not able to get through an entry level job with fries.

It is time to stop catering to children as though THEY were the educators. They aren’t. It’s time to stop being the “cool one”, it’s time to stop the frantic fun and games, it’s time that diversity actually became real diversity. . .instead of making school more like a video game, life more like a sitcom, and decision making revolving solely around clothes-goods-boy/girlfriend, let’s have them actually having to learn academics, skills, or interpersonal relationships with family and society, so that they can function as rational, capable human beings instead of the legends in their own minds that too many have become.

The kids think that adults are narrow minded. Well, let them show us how OPEN MINDED kids are–able to listen to, among other things, Gregorian chant. Able to stick to a subject until it’s mastered (if they can do it for a video game, they can do it with anything else). I really think that if we raised our expectations, the kids would meet them. Shouldn’t we give them the chance?

My point seems to have been lost. I never said to try to be something you aren’t. I specifically said it in a previous post: “By the way, “cool” doesn’t mean you have to be someone you are not. It just means that you communicate to them every day that you value them as they are and for their own sake. That is the affirmation our young kids want. Give it to them joyfully as they are made in God’s image.”

And I never said that you could never play Gregorian Chant. I said that you need to first show an effort to speak to them where they are in their lives. The first step in being a mentor is to establish credibility with them before you start to lead them. That is the point of Christ’s woman at the well story.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Teens ain’t stupid, they can see right through you if you try to be something you are not or try to be sly. They will respect you much more if you give it to them straight. Teach 'em about gregorian chant. Tell them why it is superior to the high-fructose corn syrup Jesus-is-my-boyfriend modern stuff and don’t bat an eyelid.

Scott

Good one, I can’t stop laughing!

 

[paramedicgirl]

Just another point for the OP - what the DRE is suggesting, to play rap or contemporary music, should bring to mind the unsuitability of the lyrics. Most rap songs I have heard have very un-Christian lyrics. They would have no place in a religion class.

 

[jmcrae]

My point seems to have been lost. I never said to try to be something you aren’t. I specifically said it in a previous post: “By the way, “cool” doesn’t mean you have to be someone you are not. It just means that you communicate to them every day that you value them as they are and for their own sake. That is the affirmation our young kids want. Give it to them joyfully as they are made in God’s image.”

I agree with this.

And I never said that you could never play Gregorian Chant. I said that you need to first show an effort to speak to them where they are in their lives.

But you won’t know that until you meet them. By assuming that “all kids” this or that, you are already showing disrespect. Playing some kind of awful dreck on the first day because you think kids “relate” to that would be a real mistake, because you know that you hate it, and you don’t know until after you meet them and actually ask them, what they like.

You said above, “be yourself.” That’s brilliant advice - and part of “being yourself” means bringing in the music that you think builds up the faith. Not music that someone else thinks kids can relate to.

By assuming that you know what they like, you are participating in stereotypes. The reality is that kids are individuals - they have individual tastes. Some of them may never have heard Gregorian chant before - others might love it.

The first step in being a mentor is to establish credibility with them before you start to lead them. That is the point of Christ’s woman at the well story.

When I was a kid, our little clique was into Handel - we liked those big violin sections, and we thought that his Biblical Oratorios were the greatest thing ever. I remember sitting down with my friends with a KJV Bible, eating red licorice, drinking Coke (my teeth have never recovered), and picking out all of the verses in Messiah.

We had a teacher who thought (assumed) that we liked the Beatles, so she was continually bringing in Beatles music. We hated it - we couldn’t see what she liked about it (and looking at this thread, I’m wondering whether she probably hated it just as much as we did?) and we thought that she was the most uncultured person we had ever met. Therefore, we didn’t take very much of what she said very seriously.

Based on that experience, I would say, meet the kids first, ask them what they like, introduce them to the stuff that you like, and let the dialogue go on from there. They’ll probably surprise you.

 

[Tonks40]

Just another point for the OP - what the DRE is suggesting, to play rap or contemporary music, should bring to mind the unsuitability of the lyrics. Most rap songs I have heard have very un-Christian lyrics. They would have no place in a religion class.

There are some Catholic rap artists out there like Fr. Stan Fortuna.

 

[puzzleannie]

with respect, Gregorian chant is not “background music”. It is sung liturgical prayer, and when (not if) it is introduced to your class it should be as such, in context of the history of liturgical prayer and musical tradition of the Church.

Neither is rap with Christian lyrics background music, nor is contemporary Christian praise and worship music. They all have appropriate times, places and audiences, and can be used effectively on occassion in a CCD class, or more often in a youth group, retreat or other such gathering. If you use music in the classroom it should have a purpose and relate to the lesson and concepts being presented and used as a means of conveying, reinforcing or reflecting on those concepts. The same is true of using art, the written word, journalling, arts and crafts or any other tool.

 

[MaryAgnes]

Our parish’s Religious Education director said that it would be a good idea to have some music on CD playing in the background as the kids come into class. She then asked if I had any “good Catholic music.” I said I did, and I would bring in my Gregorian Chant CD. … Now mind you, I wouldn’t just play Chant. I do have other musical forms, including John Michael Talbot and can even get some Third Day and other forms of contemporary music.
So tell me, everyone, am I out of touch???

I’d like to comment on a couple of points:

1. From what you’ve said the music was intended to be played as the kids come into class — seems to me the kids would feel more welcomed by something contemporary, don’t you? After all, they are entering a classroom–not a chapel! If you include reflective time during the class session the chant would be more appropriate then.
2. Since you have various types of music and you say you were willing to play any of it, then perhaps you should have inquired what KIND of music the DRE was suggesting. That would have saved you the embarrassment you obviously felt.

I don’t think you are “out of touch” but do you think you may have set yourself up for the reaction you received? That’s must my take on it … think about it.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

dittos to what has been said including most of everything ten posts down.

i’m 19 years old, and i wish i heard more and more gregorian chant.

the campus masses i go to are lame. i’d much rather hear gregorian than contemporary pop music.

and, besides ,the kids that get into gregorian will liekly contribute more than those that are there if they “feel” good or like the contemporary music .

 

[Lrning]

If my 7th grade son walked into a classroom with Gregorian Chant playing, he would be hearing something new to him. This would most likely leave him feeling curious about it. So I say, play the GC CD, but also explain a little about what they had heard when you start up the class. My son came home from his first Religious Ed class this year saying it was “boring” because he already “knew everything” they discussed. (I know that wasn’t truly the case, but it was his perception at the time.) Seems like starting them out with something new could be beneficial.

 

[ravenonthecross]

Play the GREGORIAN CHANT! I wish that when I’d was in CCD i’d found out about it. I’m 19, and I found out about it! it’s the awesomest music ever! Ignore your director, kids, don’t want to hear Christian rap, or hip-hop, because it sucks. they want something, that sounds like it should be in a church, like Gregorian chants.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Please play the chant, and often. This may be the only opportunity these kids will ever have to hear the music of the Church, because CCD programs like you describe generally result in kids that will leave the Church as adults.

 

[rwoehmke]

I thought that a very short time ago Chant CDs were in high demand by many ordinary folks, even many who never darkened the door of a church. Was that just a quick flash phase, or do lots of people find it pleasant? Many were not old enough to have ever heard it in church.

 

[bankerdavid]

Play the chant, but explain what it is. Maybe even start with something like Manheim Steamroller’s Veni, Veni, Emmanuel from their Christmas CD. Most will be able to relate something like that to the modern carol. But do mix it up! Maybe explaining the purpose of music in the liturgy, and getting caught up in the real history of our faith will turn someone (or more) on to it. Not every kid likes rap and contemporary. When I was in school in the 70’s, I liked Frank Sinatra more than the Beatles, or the Stones.

In your Mass, does the Priest chant anything? Does the choir chant the Psalm reading?

Don’t believe you will scare them off, but if that’s all it takes, then I don’t know what we’re coming to.