An outsider looking in

[mek42]

I’d like to use this thread to share my own journey, but maybe in bits and pieces, not all at once.

A quick history - I was raised RC, but had an atheist time before Confirmation. Ended up having a conversion experience from atheism when I was 16 at a youth retreat that a Free Methodist invited me to. I only went 'cause a girl I was crushing on was there. Anyhow, I read Job in entirety in one sitting at that retreat after returning to theism. Job is a major part of my personal theology, such as it is now.

Went to a Wesleyan school but ended up spending some time at a Franciscan retreat center affiliated with a different college. The physical journey of my first visit, just getting there, is a story all by itself. I needed to answer the challenge of “What if I called you to the priesthood?” I’m married now, and, ironically, college was the beginning of my descent into agnostic theism.

After several years of letting my spiritually sit in a box gathering dust, I have recently had cause to decide whether I believed in God. Through the use of integral calculus I decided that I did. (If anyone is interested, I can share more about this - calculus is always good for a laugh with friends. ) I ended up here after a search related to that which made me begin to re-explore my spirituality.

That’s it for now - I don’t want to put out my pearls at once. (I am totally NOT calling anyone here a swine - just remembering a controversial chapel at college where the pearls and swine verse was discussed very unconventionally - I can talk about this too if there is interest.)

Looks like you’ll need to come back later to see why the thread is titled the way it is - sorry for the cliffhanger, but I’m tired and the story of my journey is worth a wakeful brain.

 

[Edward_H]

Welcome.

I think many of us have had meandering ways forward

What brought me back to the Church was my dear wife who was a barely practicing Quaker.

And then what moved me forward faster and more solidly was a growing (to this day) realization that we are all called to be canonizable saints…and even more GRAND is that we are called to bring others (many many others…maybe thousands each!) to Christ through our charity, prayer, sacrifices, and sincere and patient and warm friendship over the years we have left on earth, all at God’s pace.

 

[Cartesian]

I am looking forward for your journey. If you don’t mind, I’d like to learn a little about your Job ‘personal theology’. I don’t know why, but I have been thinking a lot about book of Job it lately, I think I never understood it completely but I have been short in time to re-read it, so it would be good to get your point-of-view.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

If you sum up all the space under the calculus curve (integration) you find God. Just kidding.

Your story looks like it’s going to be an interesting one.

 

[mek42]

Job. Mostly perseverance. Wrestled with suicide and depression for quite some time. Someone I knew recently committed suicide - been non-trivial to keep the bad thoughts away sometimes, but I also was able to see the attachments other people had to them. I don’t think that many folks wrestling with suicide fully realize the attachment vacuum they leave. I don’t know if this is more a lack of seeing it or a lack of it being shown. Probably a spot of both.

Didn’t plan on going here tonight, but it doesn’t feel right to add anything else to this now. More later. Thanks for reading.

 

[Deus_tecum]

Mek42: I think you would greatly benefit from a form of meditation called contemplation in the Catholic nomenclature. It is something you can begin on your own at once regardless of where you are precisely at in your beliefs. Rather than try to explain the details here, I am referring you to a site that was given to me that has a good overview of what contemplation is all about. kyrie.com/inner/contemplative/index.htm God bless you in your journey and feel free to pm me with questions or comments. I don’t always remember to check the boards.

 

[mek42]

I’m tired and crabby tonight, but wanted to say thank you for the contemplation link. I will look at it when less tired.

 

[soma]

Modern science sees energy forming the material universe; the same energy in the material universe changes into various forms in the physical universe and then resolves back into pure energy in one big circle. Through scientific induction modern thought agrees with the spiritual deductions of many realized individuals that “All is one”. Investigators see variations of consciousness clearly defined from simple organisms to complex personal beings and have recorded and observed a scale of unity from the atomic level to simple intelligences and from the complex personalities to universal transcendence. They show us a continuous path where everything is united in the universe. Therefore, I would say there are various degrees of transcendence. Mek42 your are in the perfect place where you are learning what you need. Enjoy the ride, you have nothing to worry about.

 

[mek42]

Thursday night my wife and I had a major snarl on the ride home, to the point I was still angry Friday morning (got better by Friday lunchtime though). I think I avoided posting foolishly in anyone else thread that night, but I may have started one of my own where I made a fool of myself. I started off thinking to take a break from this forum for Friday to cool off, and ended up fasting, if you will, from the internet (no computer gaming either except for the odd Sudoku on the bus) except for work, keeping up on the house we’re in the middle of buying and emailing with my wife.

This whole thing reminded me of some things that are the post of the day here now. I mentioned I had an atheist phase and then had a return / conversion experience in high school. Before that conversion experience, I had kind of put all of my emotions in a box. It had started out me just trying to put the bad ones in the box, but that isn’t how it seems to work. Anyhow, there was alot of pain stuffed in that box and after the conversion, after allowing my heart to soften - those bad thoughts (“bad thoughts” is my euphemism for suicidal ideation) got worse - much worse.

When I started getting those bad thoughts under control, I was well on my way to not really thinking about the spiritual anymore. Not rejecting it mind you, just not giving it thought. Seeking the bliss of ignorant agnosticism you might say.

So, right now, as I stick my toe back into the spiritual waters, I’m a bit afraid. Rather terrified, in fact. I’m a daddy now, with the best wife (for me) and an awesome job - I’m simply not willing for the bad thoughts to be coming back. If they start coming back and seem to be a result of exploring my spiritual side again, if this happens I may well stop exploring.

Well, I suppose now I should go catch up on other threads here, I’ll probably save the one I think I made a fool of myself in for last, though I do think I’ve figured out a less foolish way to say what I was trying to.

 

[soma]

mek42 what you just posted was spiritual. You were witnessing your mind from the soul. Salutations to the Divinity within you.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thursday night my wife and I had a major snarl on the ride home, to the point I was still angry Friday morning (got better by Friday lunchtime though). I think I avoided posting foolishly in anyone else thread that night, but I may have started one of my own where I made a fool of myself. I started off thinking to take a break from this forum for Friday to cool off, and ended up fasting, if you will, from the internet (no computer gaming either except for the odd Sudoku on the bus) except for work, keeping up on the house we’re in the middle of buying and emailing with my wife.

This whole thing reminded me of some things that are the post of the day here now. I mentioned I had an atheist phase and then had a return / conversion experience in high school. Before that conversion experience, I had kind of put all of my emotions in a box. It had started out me just trying to put the bad ones in the box, but that isn’t how it seems to work. Anyhow, there was alot of pain stuffed in that box and after the conversion, after allowing my heart to soften - those bad thoughts (“bad thoughts” is my euphemism for suicidal ideation) got worse - much worse.

When I started getting those bad thoughts under control, I was well on my way to not really thinking about the spiritual anymore. Not rejecting it mind you, just not giving it thought. Seeking the bliss of ignorant agnosticism you might say.

So, right now, as I stick my toe back into the spiritual waters, I’m a bit afraid. Rather terrified, in fact. I’m a daddy now, with the best wife (for me) and an awesome job - I’m simply not willing for the bad thoughts to be coming back. If they start coming back and seem to be a result of exploring my spiritual side again, if this happens I may well stop exploring.

Well, I suppose now I should go catch up on other threads here, I’ll probably save the one I think I made a fool of myself in for last, though I do think I’ve figured out a less foolish way to say what I was trying to.

As I see it, the problem for you is not whether or not to engage in “spirituality”, but whether you’ve really got the depression and / or suicidal thoughts under control.

As far as I know, there are 3 main types, and you would seem to have one of them (reactive, endogenous or bipolar disorder aka manic depression). Have you seen a good psychiatrist about it, regardless of which type you might have?

I had depression for a while, and ended up going to see a Catholic psychiatrist. He put me on Prozac for some years, and it helped. I still have my down days, largely due to frustration in the career sense when its all said and done. However his own spirituality was a help, as we share some very definite spiritual experiences.

He’s written a few articles on spirituality as well as psychiatry. I’ve included a link to them which you may or may not find helpful in your own case.

williamwilkie.com/spiritual.htm