An unethical coworker of mine might get fired--how is one to feel about that?

[whatevergirl]

To keep the story short, there has been a coworker within my dept (back in PA now) who has been fudging his sales numbers to look like he is working, when in reality he isn’t…he has been doing this for about two years. Everyone in my dept is aware of this man’s behavior, but nothing has ever been done–I relocated with the company to FL, and I hear it is ‘still’ going on (but it’s not in my face everyday, like when I worked in the same office space as him)… Before that, an ex coworker of mine went to mgmt over it and they did nothing. I was shocked. She ended up quitting partially over it…she said she could not work for a company that would ‘reward’ bad behavior.

All this went ignored until very recently…I found out that he might be fired. I never wanted him to be fired, I only wished the behavior would stop. His lies to stop. He brings down our entire unit by continuously inflating his numbers and it looks like mgmt finally caught on to him…

So, how am I to feel about this? I am not happy to hear that he might be fired…I feel sad for the guy. I actually like him, aside from business–it’s as though he is two different people…the nice guy, and then the conniving guy in business.

If it were me, I’d give him a second chance…maybe put him on notice…I don’t know. I guess my question is…all this time, I wanted his behavior to stop…for the group, for the company…it is completely wrong (stealing in a way) to do what he has been doing for so long…but, now that he has been ‘discovered’…I feel sad about it.

What do you think? Have you ever been in such a situation? You want justice in a situation, and then justice comes, and you feel bad about it?

 

[Benadam]

I think the anger you felt and perhaps attached to the person or their behaviour was really about the injustice left unresolved to you , the team and your company. Youer feelings about the coworker were a bit cloaked by the anger. Now that justice is being served the cloud that covered your proper feelings has been removed… Just my:twocents:

 

[whatevergirl]

Oh I should restate, I don’t feel bad that he is being reprimanded…that has been a LONG time coming…but I was surprised to hear from someone close to the situation that upper mgmt is considering firing him…I guess I wonder why the leap to firing someone, upon a first conversation with the person? My dh seems to think that now, with the economy as it is, it is bringing to light people who fell below the radar screen for a while…everyone needs to produce, and people who are lazy, cheating, whatever…probably won’t last long in the new climate we find ourselves in. That could be, I think.

 

[Benadam]

Oh I should restate, I don’t feel bad that he is being reprimanded…that has been a LONG time coming…but I was surprised to hear from someone close to the situation that upper mgmt is considering firing him…I guess I wonder why the leap to firing someone, upon a first conversation with the person? My dh seems to think that now, with the economy as it is, it is bringing to light people who fell below the radar screen for a while…everyone needs to produce, and people who are lazy, cheating, whatever…probably won’t last long in the new climate we find ourselves in. That could be, I think.

Exactly

sometimes managers turn their heads to certain situations is because they know what has to be done. The economic situation really made firing more necessary although so much more dificult to have to do. Catch 22

 

[whatevergirl]

I think the anger you felt and perhaps attached to the person or their behaviour was really about the injustice left unresolved to you , the team and your company. Youer feelings about the coworker were a bit cloaked by the anger. Now that justice is being served the cloud that covered your proper feelings has been removed… Just my:twocents:

The cloud that covered your proper feelings has been removed…that is an interesting statement…can you elaborate? Sorry, it’s late. I should be sleeping, but find myself wide awake. lol:shrug: I will say this, the anger that the dept has had over this, has been because perhaps he thought we were all stupid, that none of us knew what he was doing…it’s very easy to know who is selling and who isn’t in my dept…and the fact that he would submit bogus numbers week after week…year after year…was nausteating, I have to say. But, all that being said, I feel sorry for him. I personally think this is a character flaw in the man, and that no amount of ‘training’ could correct it. My dh said that could be why they might be considering letting him go, because given another set of circumstances, he might lie again.

 

[whatevergirl]

Exactly

sometimes managers turn their heads to certain situations is because they know what has to be done. The economic situation really made firing more necessary although so much more dificult to have to do. Catch 22

I’m leaving out some details…we have had a change in upper mgmt I should add since the coworker who reported him left. They are much more studious with numbers, metrics, and frankly, his ‘numbers’ made no sense. After a while, (and again, I don’t live in PA anymore) I became indifferent to it. I didn’t want to hear about it…I felt that it was none of my business, but then it was. One of my good friends said…it’s natural to care about the company you work for, and when someone is abusing their position so they can collect a check…it’s hurtful to everyone.

 

[Benadam]

The cloud that covered your proper feelings has been removed…that is an interesting statement…can you elaborate? Sorry, it’s late. I should be sleeping, but find myself wide awake. lol:shrug: I will say this, the anger that the dept has had over this, has been because perhaps he thought we were all stupid, that none of us knew what he was doing…it’s very easy to know who is selling and who isn’t in my dept…and the fact that he would submit bogus numbers week after week…year after year…was nausteating, I have to say. But, all that being said, I feel sorry for him. I personally think this is a character flaw in the man, and that no amount of ‘training’ could correct it. My dh said that could be why they might be considering letting him go, because given another set of circumstances, he might lie again.

the sense of being victimized evokes powerfull emotions. They are invariably ( unles you are a saint) inflated and when there seems to be no means of resolution of the injustice we feel victimized twice over. How you really feel is more proper to the situation once the inflated emotions of victimization are removed.

I feel it and can only try not to act on them. I act like ‘can’t touch this’ sometimes when I’m really reeling inside… .

 

[Benadam]

I’m leaving out some details…we have had a change in upper mgmt I should add since the coworker who reported him left. They are much more studious with numbers, metrics, and frankly, his ‘numbers’ made no sense. After a while, (and again, I don’t live in PA anymore) I became indifferent to it. I didn’t want to hear about it…I felt that it was none of my business, but then it was. One of my good friends said…it’s natural to care about the company you work for, and when someone is abusing their position so they can collect a check…it’s hurtful to everyone.

New management…yikes!..that almost always involves clearing house. ouch

 

[mystified]

A change in management often brings other changes. I could be that upper management has been waiting to see if he’d wake up, then when he didn’t, allowing new people to be the “broom”.
You have obvious and understandable mixed feelings about a friend who is about to be punished for his wrongs.
In this time of economic uncertainty, he is going to need your prayers.

 

[whatevergirl]

New management…yikes!..that almost always involves clearing house. ouch

I know, it has many on edge…thankfully, I have been doing well…praise be to God. I owe it all to Him, and it is very nice to have mgmt happy with my work. So, I’m not ‘worried’ per se for myself, but suffice to say, if you are not producing, let alone not producing and fudging your metrics to look like you are, I guess they don’t have the time to babysit such behavior. I just feel bad…this man is in his late 50’s…and the job market is very hard right now. He has health issues, and needs benefits. My dh said…‘he should have been working hard, then.’ My dh doesn’t really feel for him too much…he feels that if it was a one time offense, but to go on for two years? It shows that he had no plans on changing anytime soon. lol Thanks for your thoughts, they helped me get some things clear in my head about it all.

 

[Mike_Dye]

Put yourself in the position of the business owner. Most people start businesses to make money first and foremost, but a lot of business owners also value the service or product that makes life better for their customers, in other words they take pride in what they do. Another aspect is that they are able to help those that they employ to support themselves and their families.
Throw in the equation the slack-off that thinks the world owes him a living, he pads the books to make it look like he is producing when in reality he isn’t . The boss in hard economic times needs to cut back. Who would you, if you were the boss let go?

 

[whatevergirl]

All the while this went on, I prayed that he would ‘change’. He never did…on his own, should I say. If he remains in the dept, and they give him another chance–hopefully, he won’t make the same ‘mistake’ twice. That being said, I think what I feel most sorry over for him, is that he feels the need to do the bad behavior in the first place…He is very capable, but somewhere along the lines, he got the notion that he could take advantage of the situation…I should also add, our boss used to be a good friend of his…since this situation has come to light, not so much–but during the hiring process, they were friends to a degree, and sadly, I think this man took advantage of his friend. Thinking…he’ll never fire me, we’re friends.

 

[whatevergirl]

Put yourself in the position of the business owner. Most people start businesses to make money first and foremost, but a lot of business owners also value the service or product that makes life better for their customers, in other words they take pride in what they do. Another aspect is that they are able to help those that they employ to support themselves and their families.
Throw in the equation the slack-off that thinks the world owes him a living, he pads the books to make it look like he is producing when in reality he isn’t . The boss in hard economic times needs to cut back. Who would you, if you were the boss let go?

Oh yes, the reasoning I understand, if they were to fire him. Totally agree with you. I just feel sorry for him, and I guess I don’t know why, when I was so angry with him for so long! lol Perhaps, I just think firing him without a warning is harsh…would you give this man a warning, all things considered or fire him?

 

[whatevergirl]

A change in management often brings other changes. I could be that upper management has been waiting to see if he’d wake up, then when he didn’t, allowing new people to be the “broom”.
You have obvious and understandable mixed feelings about a friend who is about to be punished for his wrongs.
In this time of economic uncertainty, he is going to need your prayers.

Hi mystified…yes, you are so right about that. I have been asking God to somehow intervene and have mgmt have some mercy on him…at least put him on warning. That would be very reasonable to me. I personally will be happy to know, just for my own self, that when I see the weekly/monthly numbers, his will be real now. There will be comfort in knowing that the nonsense will have to come to an end. It’s just firing him. Not sure I’d do that just yet.

Supposedly, he hasn’t been at work since being called out on this …he claims he is sick, I don’t think he is…I think he is very worried. I remember when he first started working, he tried to ‘take’ an account of mine, was always in my database when I’d walk away…I am glad I’m in Florida now. Plus the weather has been nicer than PA. LOL

 

[whatevergirl]

My dh said something recently about this, and it truly sums it up best probably…“simply put, he was a bad hire.” It really is a case of someone who shouldn’t have ever been hired because of his prior friendship that went way back with our collective boss. I remember interviewing him, as that used to be something I assisted with…and thought…hmmm…I dunno. I never felt quite right about hiring him. I think that it caused my boss to overly trust him when he shouldn’t have, and for the guy in question, to manipulate and take advantage of his friend. Live and learn, I guess.

 

[Eggnotz]

There were doubtless things happening with him that you are not privy to. Management is often not as clueless as the rank-and-file think they are. Your impulses are correct. What’s right is right.

 

[saieditor]

[snip]

He brings down our entire unit by continuously inflating his numbers and it looks like management finally caught on to him…

[snip]

So, how am I to feel about this?

[snip]

You want justice in a situation, and then justice comes, and you feel bad about it?

You need to learn to distinguish what you feel about a person from what you know to be right and wrong, as informed by your conscience.

Look to his values.

→ Behaviour (lying, fudging sales)

→ is based on choices (he chooses to behave inappropriately)

→ which are based on values (selfishness)

Selfishness, lying, bringing down the whole company does not lead you to the Kingdom of God.

Now, who do you follow? This fellow, your feelings, or Jesus?

 

[whatevergirl]

You need to learn to distinguish what you feel about a person from what you know to be right and wrong, as informed by your conscience.

Look to his values.

→ Behaviour (lying, fudging sales)

→ is based on choices (he chooses to behave inappropriately)

→ which are based on values (selfishness)

Selfishness, lying, bringing down the whole company does not lead you to the Kingdom of God.

Now, who do you follow? This fellow, your feelings, or Jesus?

True. all true. I guess I just feel bad that he felt the ‘need’ to do this…while yes he has free will and made a choice to do this, I think he definitely has some mental issues. Thanks for the thoughts, all!

 

[RobHom]

Have you considered the ramifications of that person’s actions, and the actions of the old “management”?

If, in this day of modern business…it is fair to presume that the business you work for is computerized, and if that is the case, then by inflating one’s “sales” in a database, and forbid the possibility that that database “influences” the general ledger, the possibility exists that the company’s financial documents are skewed, and this has a “cascading” effect… Now, beyond that, if any “compensation” is paid based on “sales” as in commissions or bonuses, then theft has occurred.

Have you considered that the old management was aware of this going on…and the possibility that they gained as well?

Frankly, I would not be concerned about the person being fired, as if there was an illegal actions going on…that party should be happy if they do not face criminal charges or civil suits.

 

[LilyM]

True. all true. I guess I just feel bad that he felt the ‘need’ to do this…while yes he has free will and made a choice to do this, I think he definitely has some mental issues. Thanks for the thoughts, all!

He might, and then again he might have just seen an easy way of getting paid for work he hasn’t done (aka plain ol’ laziness).

In any case, I think you seem to be exhibiting in an exemplary manner the dictum of ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. :yup:

God bless.