An unethical coworker of mine might get fired--how is one to feel about that?

[whatevergirl]

He might, and then again he might have just seen an easy way of getting paid for work he hasn’t done (aka plain ol’ laziness).

In any case, I think you seem to be exhibiting in an exemplary manner the dictum of ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. :yup:

God bless.

I hadn’t thought of that. It’s a shame that he felt the need to do this, because other than this, he is a decent man, with problems like the rest of us.

 

[whatevergirl]

Have you considered the ramifications of that person’s actions, and the actions of the old “management”?

If, in this day of modern business…it is fair to presume that the business you work for is computerized, and if that is the case, then by inflating one’s “sales” in a database, and forbid the possibility that that database “influences” the general ledger, the possibility exists that the company’s financial documents are skewed, and this has a “cascading” effect… Now, beyond that, if any “compensation” is paid based on “sales” as in commissions or bonuses, then theft has occurred.

Have you considered that the old management was aware of this going on…and the possibility that they gained as well?

Frankly, I would not be concerned about the person being fired, as if there was an illegal actions going on…that party should be happy if they do not face criminal charges or civil suits.

You know, you make an excellent point. Not that I think for a moment that upper mgmt turned a blind eye because they were benefitting…BUT…by not doing anything about it, perhaps they were afraid of the ramfications of doing so, and if that means they themselves were not doing their jobs (thus real sales were not being made by this person) I will just be grateful that the behavior will stop. It’s not fair to anyone, and frankly, it was demoralizing to the team. Thx for your thoughts.

 

[Newbie2]

. I have been asking God to somehow intervene and have mgmt have some mercy on him…at least put him on warning. That would be very reasonable to me.

So firing him outright wouldn’t be reasonable? I’m not being sarcastic. This person is a bad employee, in some aspects a thief. Any reasonable manager would have sacked him long ago.

Perhaps this is God’s way of intervening? Sometimes it takes a carrot and sometimes a stick.

 

[LilyM]

So firing him outright wouldn’t be reasonable? I’m not being sarcastic. This person is a bad employee, in some aspects a thief. Any reasonable manager would have sacked him long ago.

Perhaps this is God’s way of intervening? Sometimes it takes a carrot and sometimes a stick.

Well, it is true that two years of constant cheating is likely more than enough justification. For all you know this employee was given previous warnings that you didn’t know about, or something.

At the same time, ‘if you O Lord should mark our sins, Lord who would survive?’ We should always pray for mercy for the wrongdoer, rather than strict and merciless justice. For the sake of this person’s dependants who would suffer along with him, if for no other reason.

 

[whatevergirl]

So firing him outright wouldn’t be reasonable? I’m not being sarcastic. This person is a bad employee, in some aspects a thief. Any reasonable manager would have sacked him long ago.

Perhaps this is God’s way of intervening? Sometimes it takes a carrot and sometimes a stick.

That is interesting. You sound like my dh, who says that it’s not punishment, but a person facing the consequences of his actions. Totally agree, he is a ‘bad’ employee. He really is. In some ways, he has brought some merit to the job, but overall, he is stealing in a way. Showing up, sitting around, and not really working…and then submitting false numbers to collect a check and benefits, is wrong. My husband said imagine an employee walking into the supply room and walking off with all kinds of supplies everyday…would that be tolerated? This is more insidious, but it’s bad just the same. Thanks for your insight.

 

[whatevergirl]

Well, it is true that two years of constant cheating is likely more than enough justification. For all you know this employee was given previous warnings that you didn’t know about, or something.

At the same time, ‘if you O Lord should mark our sins, Lord who would survive?’ We should always pray for mercy for the wrongdoer, rather than strict and merciless justice. For the sake of this person’s dependants who would suffer along with him, if for no other reason.

And I also agree with this…you said it best earlier Lily…love the sinner hate the sin…that’s how I feel about it. While he was a ‘bad’ employee, I have compassion over the embarassment he probably feels now. The irony is, I was told my someone close to this, that he lied again when confronted…I think that is why mgmt is considering letting him go…we’ll have to see what happens.

 

[Eggnotz]

As a person who is on the management side of these types of decisions, I can tell you it isn’t easy. I’ve had to fire people in order to preserve the integrity of the team. They did it to themselves and gave us no choice.

People nowadays often are genuinely surprised when they don’t get a “pass” after telling lies and behaving unethically. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt but they often insist on taking the low road.

We ALL truly do reap what we sow.

 

[whatevergirl]

Hello everyone–just a quick update. He wasn’t fired, and I have a feeling he won’t be…at least now. Unless it happens again, which I highly doubt now that we have more sophisticated software to track the validity of sales opportunities now. I hope for his sake he doesn’t try his shenanigans again. Thanks for your posts everyone, they were helpful.

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

I’m a little confused at the premises that 1. You should be able to control your feelings about the situation, and 2. That you need to form some sort of feeling in the same way that you’d form an opinion.

The guy was unethical; the guy is paying for it. Maybe he’ll learn something.

When I write someone a speeding ticket, I don’t really dwell on an emotional response. Someone’s breaking the law and increasing the risk of a traffic crash. I don’t have to dislike them to write the ticket.

In fact, I popped a fellow parishioner one day on her way to Mass (we didn’t know each other, though). She started busting my chops about citing her when she’s trying to get to church. I pointed out to her (since she opened the door into a religious/ethical discussion) that she should consider observing the incredible importance of Holy Mass instead of treating it as an afterthought and speeding to get there just a few minutes after it had started.

She demurred and thanked me. I like to think that she learned something about her attitude toward Mass and about traffic safety. Might be the best $141 she ever spent.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m a little confused at the premises that 1. You should be able to control your feelings about the situation, and 2. That you need to form some sort of feeling in the same way that you’d form an opinion.

The guy was unethical; the guy is paying for it. Maybe he’ll learn something.

When I write someone a speeding ticket, I don’t really dwell on an emotional response. Someone’s breaking the law and increasing the risk of a traffic crash. I don’t have to dislike them to write the ticket.

In fact, I popped a fellow parishioner one day on her way to Mass (we didn’t know each other, though). She started busting my chops about citing her when she’s trying to get to church. I pointed out to her (since she opened the door into a religious/ethical discussion) that she should consider observing the incredible importance of Holy Mass instead of treating it as an afterthought and speeding to get there just a few minutes after it had started.

She demurred and thanked me. I like to think that she learned something about her attitude toward Mass and about traffic safety. Might be the best $141 she ever spent.

But you probably made her late to mass by giving her the ticket.
I agree. Going back to the whole story, I don’t think he is going to get fired, but he at least won’t be able to get away with the nonsense anymore. That is all that ever mattered to me.
Regarding your first paragraph…I think while you are right, he behaved badly and is paying for it, I still felt compassion. That’s all.

 

[apromisemade]

It is admirable that you still feel for this man in spite of his indiscrepency, but the truth is maybe getting fired is what he needs in order to even think about changing. A lot of people won’t start doing what is right and/or legal just because someone tells them they should, they have to have consequences for their immoral behavior.

 

[forever47]

**But you probably made her late to mass by giving her the ticket.**I agree. Going back to the whole story, I don’t think he is going to get fired, but he at least won’t be able to get away with the nonsense anymore. That is all that ever mattered to me.
Regarding your first paragraph…I think while you are right, he behaved badly and is paying for it, I still felt compassion. That’s all.

I don’t understand this train of thought. How did he probably make her late for mass by giving her the ticket? She is the one that made the choice to speed. The consequences for speeding are getting pulled over (delayed in your journey) and being issued a ticket. She made the choice, he was doing his job. She made herself late for mass.

I’m not intending to specifically pick on you, whatevergirl, it’s just that I hear people say this kind of thing a lot and I don’t understand the transfer of responsibility. I may be in error here, if so, please explain this to me.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t understand this train of thought. How did he probably make her late for mass by giving her the ticket? She is the one that made the choice to speed. The consequences for speeding are getting pulled over (delayed in your journey) and being issued a ticket. She made the choice, he was doing his job. She made herself late for mass.

I’m not intending to specifically pick on you, whatevergirl, it’s just that I hear people say this kind of thing a lot and I don’t understand the transfer of responsibility. I may be in error here, if so, please explain this to me.

It was meant to be a joke on my part…thus the use of that emoticon.

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

But you probably made her late to mass by giving her the ticket.
I agree. Going back to the whole story, I don’t think he is going to get fired, but he at least won’t be able to get away with the nonsense anymore. That is all that ever mattered to me.
Regarding your first paragraph…I think while you are right, he behaved badly and is paying for it, I still felt compassion. That’s all.

Well, I definitely made her later. Perhaps she went to the next Mass after preparing for it properly. Or, maybe she went to a coffee shop to read a newspaper for awhile, noticed she was late for Mass again, and had to speed to get to the next one.

I guess I just don’t get worked up when people face the natural consequences for their actions. That’s how we learn, and our self-created problems often make us better people. I’d much rather see an alcoholic get arrested for DUII than successfully sneak home driving drunk. Public safety notwithstanding, the alcoholic benefits more from the arrest. It forces him to face his problem, and it may provide the impetus for him to reclaim his life.

 

[forever47]

Whatevergirl,
I apologize for reacting to your joke the way I did. I did see your smiley. This is one of my pet peeves (transfer of responsibility) and I kinda nailed you for it even though you were joking; I am sorry.

 

[whatevergirl]

Whatevergirl,
I apologize for reacting to your joke the way I did. I did see your smiley. This is one of my pet peeves (transfer of responsibility) and I kinda nailed you for it even though you were joking; I am sorry.

LOL, aw, that’s ok. I agree with what you were saying, though…she was speeding, and she was caught. She really made herself late to mass. Have a good night.