An unfortuate Mass experience

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Paul_Folbrecht

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My wife & I, on vacation in beautiful northeastern WI, attended Saturday evening Mass at a nearby parish.

It didn’t start out well. We got there about 20m early, half-way hoping that maybe there would be a pre-Mass rosary, or, if not, quite time for prayer and preparation.

What was going on was something I’ve never come across before personally in a Catholic Church: the pastor was going up and down the aisles through the whole church, shaking hands and chit-chatting with people. Not quietly/personally, but loud enough for all around to hear, including the silly jokes and comments about the Packers. My wife having her head buried in the missal reading the Sunday readings was not enough of a hint to be passed by, either. This went on until literally the moment Mass started.

Ok - this is probably not a liturgical abuse per-se: the liturgy hadn’t started yet. However, is this any way to prepare to participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? The making present of Calvary? That is, as a matter of fact, what the Church teaches the Mass is.

However, it gets worse. The celebrant of this Mass was not the local pastor, but a retired bishop. Which is, of course, just fine, even great, but for a few things: he changed words in the Gospel reading because it wasn’t politically correct enough for him (I’m assuming here) (using gender-neutral words for God instead of ‘He’) and did a couple other ‘nonstandard’ things.

But, actually, the biggest problem wasn’t what he did at this Mass, but his stated beliefs and teachings in general; we discovered these things afterwards as he piqued our curiosity enough to look him up. It’s rather surprising he was never laicized, frankly.

I was previously at fault in naming him here, which is against the forum rules (sorry); there’s no need to do that, and no need to know much about him outside of this: he rejects the Catholic doctrine concerning homosexual behavior. He has said that homosexual sex is not only acceptable and good, but that it’s objectively superior to heterosexual sex: it’s ‘more humane’ (because gay men understand each others’ bodies better than do a heterosexual couple).

By some reports at least, he aided in the coverup of the activities of several pedophile priests. He is also a proud member of at least two semi-schismatic organizations with heretic beliefs.

Be careful out there, folks - it’s scary. And sad. 😦
 
Prayers going up for this bishop and the congregation of this parish.
 
Your post sums up virtually in it’s entirety the reasons why I will ONLY attend the Traditional Latin Mass unless absolutely necessary to fulfill my Sunday obligation under unforseen circumstances… Like a severe snowstorm… etc…

😉 😉 😉 👍
 
mm3861 said:
Your post sums up virtually in it’s entirety the reasons why I will ONLY attend the Traditional Latin Mass unless absolutely necessary to fulfill my Sunday obligation under unforseen circumstances… Like a severe snowstorm… etc…

😉 😉 😉 👍
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We attend only TLM on Sundays at home. I am lucky to have a reverent NO a block and a half from the office I attend several times per week (noon daily Mass).

We are always nervous when away from home and have to attend a new parish; this will be the LAST time we don’t do any homework and just pick one at random. I hope to never have an experience like this again.
 
How unfortunate that some people seem to have so much difficulty finding properly done Ordinary Form masses. I thank the Lord that I am near two parishes who say the mass in Ordinary Form, yet are very orthodox and are free from abuse.
 
I would like to add that, out of all feelings and thoughts I’ve had about this issue, #1 on the list is a persistent feeling of sadness for this bishop. He is likely not long for this life, and look at what the state of his soul must be, to be in totally unrepentant, public heresy at this point.

My mind keeps coming back to this. It is terribly sad.
 
You said it right…It is terribly sad.

When a person is fortunate enough to be able to go to a reverent TLM going to an so-so NO is quite a shock of sorts.
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
I would like to add that, out of all feelings and thoughts I’ve had about this issue, #1 on the list is a persistent feeling of sadness for this bishop. He is likely not long for this life, and look at what the state of his soul must be, to be in totally unrepentant, public heresy at this point.

My mind keeps coming back to this. It is terribly sad.
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Paul,

Assuming what you’ve said is correct…on what basis do you still call him a Catholic?

He appears to be a manifest heretic and as such, is no longer to be considered a member of the Church. Would you let him teach your children? Is it okay for him to teach other’s children? Is it okay for him to preach a sermon?

SFD
 
At least he’s a retired Bishop, and is no longer in charge of the whole diocese…
 
Well ,last night we had the Vicar General from our diocese , and he is a wonderful man ,saying mass.( our priest is getting some medical attention).

.I wouldn’t use this guy as a yardstick, to determine all NO masses, he has lost his faith as far as I am concerned
 
After reading the initial posting and all of the responses, I am ashamed to be Catholic. If being Catholic means judging everyone and finding that we are better, holier and the only good ones while having no love and compassion for anyone else, then the Catholic Church is worse than the approach that Jesus condemned in the Pharisees that he saw. I really think more and more that the Church in what I read here is abandoning Jesus Christ all together as well as the Holy Spirit for the sake of just being better and superior beings. That is exactly the opposite of the readings of this great feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross today. I do not know when it became more important to be right and better than everybody else rather than follow the two great commandments of Jesus but I hope that the Catholic Church returns to Jesus some day and what he preached because from what I read here, Jesus is not even thought of at all. Jesus healed those in need of healing on the Sabbath when he was scolded. He was present to the poor and oppressed in their need. He was scolded in the same way you are scolding. I would prefer to be on the side of Jesus and not finding fault with those who are doing his work but with trying to bring people together in love as he asked of us so that we can all be saved. I see why the Catholic Church is shrinking more all of the time and why people complain about the Church being hypocritical…I pray for all of the people who prefer the way of the pharisees that I see here that some day you experience the change of heart which helps you to follow the Beatitudes, the golden rule and the two great commandements. I know that it is very difficult to follow them. The ways of the world of hatred, bitterness, division and meanness are much easier but I always hope that the ways of Jesus prevail. He went to the cross because people said exactly the same things that I read here. They prefered to eliminate him than have imperfect liturgy by their standards or because he loved people he was not supposed to love or because he broke rules which were getting in the way of God’s love. I pray for an outpouring of the Holy Spirit because that is the only thing which will help with the sin that I have experienced in reading these postings today. Best wishes and prayers.
 
David Ruby, I pray that you will become less ignorant of the Catholic faith. God bless!
 
David,

I’m afraid it is you that has “little in the way of understanding” concerning the Catholic faith in general (as you said it me privately). It is also you and the bishop in question here that are doing the dividing.

Outside of the clear teaching on homosexual behavior, what are Catholic doctrines or dogma do you and he reject? Christ prayed to the Father that His Church would be “one” - “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith”. You cannot have people in the Church, much less a bishop, publicly, scandalously preaching a false Gospel by denying the clear teachings of the Church - clear teachings that do go back to the very beginning.

Your mindless emotionalism and irrational (and JUDGMENTAL) argument does nothing to change the fact that the bishop is an abject heretic, by the standards the Church has always maintained, and still maintains. This is a simple fact; it is not my opinion, it is not anyone else’s “opinion”, and furthermore, the moral code of the Church calls upon all of the faithful to point out heresy as such when it is encountered.

Please see Christ’s admonishment to those who would lead astray his flock - “it would be better for him to have a large millstone tied around his neck and thrown into the sea”.

We will, indeed, all be judged.
 
Paul, thanks for putting some specifics to my one-liner. David needs prayers and guidance, same as all of us…
 
SFD said:
Paul,

Assuming what you’ve said is correct…on what basis do you still call him a Catholic?

He appears to be a manifest heretic and as such, is no longer to be considered a member of the Church. Would you let him teach your children? Is it okay for him to teach other’s children? Is it okay for him to preach a sermon?

SFD
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SFD,

I’m not aware of any teaching that automatically puts someone who holds heretical beliefs outside the Church - doesn’t it take an explicit excommunication?

One of your questions is very easy to answer - I would not allow this man near my children.
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
He has said that homosexual sex is not only acceptable and good, but that it’s objectively superior to heterosexual sex: it’s ‘more humane’ (because gay men understand each others’ bodies better than do a heterosexual couple).

😦
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I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that a Priest would say this. Impossible.

How do you know this is true? Maybe it’s gossip that isn’t even true?
 
yellowbird said:
I find it IMPOSSIBLE to believe that a Priest would say this. Impossible.

How do you know this is true? Maybe it’s gossip that isn’t even true?
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Priest? He said it as a bishop. Not just once, by any means, and it’s very well-documented.

We cannot talk about people specifically here publicly - it’s against the forum rules. So, I will send you a PM.
 
I stand corrected. 😦

Hail Mary, full of grace
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
 
I have degrees in theology from Catholic Universities in this country and am a leader in the church. You have not specifically mentioned any heresy that I know of. I hear only vague judgments. No one here participated in what is described at all and thinks that they can judge. I want church councils and papal documents cited telling me about the heresies involved as well as anything else that can be shown to prove what anyone is saying here. To condemn a bishop of the church who was called forward by a pope with the help of the Holy Spirit is really a prideful thing to do. I hope that whoever is doing this is a Cardinal of the Church or someone who works for the church because lay people should not be condemning the hierarchy in that way. I begin to understand why our church is dying and why we do not have enough priests and why young people are leaving left and right. I hear it all of the time from them. It is this attitude which is killing our church from the bottom up. Our church really needs prayers if we are going to be like this. We condemn based on our own opinions without allowing the pope and Cardinals to do their job. All of these postings are an implicit condemnation of the pope and all of the hierarchy since they appoint the bishops and they are the bishops. YOu are probably like that group out of New York who condemn our pope and think he is a heretic since he has changed so much of the way that the church relates to other churches and people of faith. I was shocked by their dvd which condemned the pope as a heretic because he has gone against so many of the councils of the church. I wish we could just all be one as Jesus prayed. I will really pray for that. I know that I will be condemned as a heretic for standing up for bishops and popes but I can live with that. I just want to do what Jesus wants. Please Jesus in the power of the Spirit help your church to stop condemning each other and help them to work together to love and serve you!!!
 
David Ruby,

Unfortunately, degrees from Catholic universities, especially in this country, simply don’t mean much when we have so many confused, theologically unsound, and deviant priests running around.

And speaking of theologically unsound, a bishop advocating for participating in homosexual behavior…Need I say more? There’s absolutely nothing vague about it. Get your head out of the sand. This behavior, and many other types of sinful behavior have been condemned like, 2358907340567 times.

And lastly, it would be great if we were all one, but not if it means sacrificing the truth. Truth Incarnate was already crucified two milleniums ago in order that He would send the Holy Ghost to guide the Church (not ‘churches’) into all truth, not obscurity and confusion, bifurcation, equivocation, and obfuscation. If you are indeed a ‘leader’ in the church then I fear for those you are leading. I shall redouble my efforts in your behalf, and for the souls in your care.
 
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