An unfortuate Mass experience

[eelpis]

It isn’t about “bringing us together in love”. It’s about redemption for our sins and what Jesus had to suffer because of us. Check out the “clown masses” or the “halloween masses” on YouTube and you’ll see that there is no depth to the mockery that Our Savior The Lord Jesus Christ has had to endure at the hands of these liturgical butchers. While such abominations are rare, they do happen and the perpetrators deserve to be scolded! Jesus is worthy of the highest standard of worship we as Catholics can give him. The Traditional Latin Mass is the “gold standard” and has been for centuries.
Peace be with you.

The purpose of the Church is to save us from hell. Who needs a Church where you are told there is no mortal sin and there is no hell. If that were so we could shut the whole operation down. (Some priests and even bishops have been trying to do just that for about half a century now.)
“The most sure sign of the wrath of God is that He lets His people have bad shepherds.”

In other words it’s not the shepherds who are the problem but the people.

Bad bishops are not a new phenomenon in Church history, I think the bishop in question would pale in comparison to some of the princes of the Church during the Middle Ages.

 

[CassiusLonginus]

eelpis,

you may be right, but sin is still sin, and publically preaching it is still leading souls to hell. bad bishops have more than their own souls to think about and in today’s society one bishop’s message can be heard all over the state, country, or world, effecting many more people. in earlier times, this was not the case.

 

[603304529]

Who was it that said that the floors of hell were lined with bishops’ skulls?

Perhaps the walls are lined with priests skulls?

 

[stbruno]

I can tell this is greatly troubling you. Personally, I couldn’t stand idly and do nothing…even if you are a visitor. I don’t know what diocese you were attending mass, but if you know, see if they have an email for the reporting of priests/bishops for behavior…in our diocese it is the protecting God’s children link. There is a way to report some suspicious behavior. This outward denouncement of church traditions, teachings and canon law is unacceptable from anyone, least of all a priest/retired bishop from the pulpit no less. Be specific, details, time, place where he said this and report this behavior. It is public scandal and needs to be handled. Also drop the pastor of this parish a line telling him that you are greatly distressed by this occurrence. Do not make it anonymous though. Those letters get pitched and are not taken with much credence. I can guarantee you, that someone else in the congregration was a mortified as you were unless they were all dead. Before you do it, do it respectfully and courteously, not self-righteous and smug…you will be doing the parish and the church a very valuable service in having this looked into…and hopefully avoided in the future. Pray first, last and always that you will be enlightened by the Holy Spirit to fill you with the right words to say and put on paper in your complaint. God bless you for protecting the common good and your fellow Christians.

 

[SFD]

SFD,

I’m not aware of any teaching that automatically puts someone who holds heretical beliefs outside the Church - doesn’t it take an explicit excommunication?

No, it does not. Heretics and schismatics separate themselves from the Body of the Church. This is all very basic…read the Catholic Encyclopedia section under HERESY. I just quoted it on this or another thread.

One of your questions is very easy to answer - I would not allow this man near my children.

And this is because of doctrinal problems as well, right?

SFD

 

[CradleCath]

I can tell this is greatly troubling you. Personally, I couldn’t stand idly and do nothing…even if you are a visitor. I don’t know what diocese you were attending mass, but if you know, see if they have an email for the reporting of priests/bishops for behavior…in our diocese it is the protecting God’s children link. There is a way to report some suspicious behavior. This outward denouncement of church traditions, teachings and canon law is unacceptable from anyone, least of all a priest/retired bishop from the pulpit no less. Be specific, details, time, place where he said this and report this behavior. It is public scandal and needs to be handled. Also drop the pastor of this parish a line telling him that you are greatly distressed by this occurrence. Do not make it anonymous though. Those letters get pitched and are not taken with much credence. I can guarantee you, that someone else in the congregration was a mortified as you were unless they were all dead. Before you do it, do it respectfully and courteously, not self-righteous and smug…you will be doing the parish and the church a very valuable service in having this looked into…and hopefully avoided in the future. Pray first, last and always that you will be enlightened by the Holy Spirit to fill you with the right words to say and put on paper in your complaint. God bless you for protecting the common good and your fellow Christians.

I’m pretty sure that I know who this retired “Bishop” is. He keeps himself in front of the press as much as possible & he has the GLBT stauncly behind him. About 6 yrs. ago, during a meeting of the USCCB some homosexuals & lesbians protested during the Mass & demanded that they receive the Eucharist from one of the Bishops. The Bishops refused & called the police. This particular Bishop that Paul mentioned was, I believe, the leading witness for the DEFENSE when they went to trial. The defendents were all members of “soulforce”…an organization founded in order to stop “religions from *persecuting *gays”.I would imagine he’s been turned in several times, though I doubt the complaints have reached the Vatican.

 

[stbruno]

Then write the Vatican.

 

[CradleCath]

Then write the Vatican.

Sounds like a plan to me!!

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I think that this poster, David Ruby, is more concerned about our reaction to the retired Bishop’s particular heresy…acceptance of gay sex, than anything else. Once again, I’ll say that…had this Bishop given a sermon saying that hate crimes are OK., that they, in fact, are less evil than crimes which simply invovle the stealing of someone’s money…Mr Ruby would be very angry.

As I said, on another thread, It’s the sin, itself, that makes the difference. Homosexuality is disordered & the practice of same, the approval of homosexual acts is a grievous sin.

Incidentally, our research discovered that this bishop seems to vocally support every modern heresy under the sun. He supports woman priests. He supports legal abortion. (Oh, of course, he’d like to see fewer abortions, as long as ‘choice is maintained’! What a guy!) He throws some of the most disgusting insults at the Pope and the doctrine of papal authority and the Vatican I’ve ever seen (which makes David’s claims of being the loyal Catholic, and us the wolves, all the more preposterous).

And he’s speaking all over the place as well, it seems. Keep your eyes open - write your bishop if he’s coming to your diocese.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

eelpis,

you may be right, but sin is still sin, and publically preaching it is still leading souls to hell. bad bishops have more than their own souls to think about and in today’s society one bishop’s message can be heard all over the state, country, or world, effecting many more people. in earlier times, this was not the case.

Exactly - this is exactly the point. It’s the leading astray of so many that makes this such a serious topic. It’s the reason I don’t think I can call myself a loyal Catholic and sit idly by while such things occur.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

No, it does not. Heretics and schismatics separate themselves from the Body of the Church. This is all very basic…read the Catholic Encyclopedia section under HERESY. I just quoted it on this or another thread.

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but then what’s the point of formal excommunication? Well, I suppose there are obedience issues that don’t involve heresy…

And this is because of doctrinal problems as well, right?

As well? Primarily.

 

[northstar3]

Who was it that said that the floors of hell were lined with bishops’ skulls?

Perhaps the walls are lined with priests skulls?

That would be St. John Chrysostom: “The floor of hell is carpeted with the skulls of priests.” Or I’ve also seen it simply as: “Hell is paved with priests’ skulls.”

 

[SFD]

I don’t mean to be argumentative, but then what’s the point of formal excommunication? Well, I suppose there are obedience issues that don’t involve heresy…

Heresy and schism are not censures. The CE explains this.

St. Robert Bellarmine’s doctrine on the membership of the Church is the basis for the presentation in Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Mystici Corporis. There, four requirements for membership are given: those who are baptized, who profess the Faith integrally, who submit to the lawful authority of the Pope and hierarchy in communion with him, and who have not been excluded from the Church by excommunication. Thus, heretics, schismatics, infidels, and excommunicates are excluded from the Church, even though they are baptized. Heretics and excommunicates are two different categories. In the case of the former (and schismatics as well), they are excluded by their own actions; in the case of excommunicates, they are excluded by the Church’s judgment, in punishment of crimes committed.

This is all quite clearly defined in Mystici Corporis, Line 20 or 22, I believe.

As well? Primarily.

So you are morally certain he is a danger and a heretic…why shy away from condemning him as a heretic and questioning those who support him?

SFD

 

[Jo_Benedict]

Note:

This thread is closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.