Ancestry and the LDS

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Brandon_Cal said:
Ancestry.com is not affiliated with the LDS Church. That being said, its headquarters is in Provo, Utah, and it was founded by two BYU graduates, so I think this is where a lot of the unease comes from. The thing is, Ancestry.com is essentially nothing more than an information database that collects readily public information and streamlines it for ease of use. The same sources Ancestry.com uses (government census data, immigration records, public notices, obituaries, etc.) is available to everyone including the LDS Church, so I don’t see how refusing to use its services in any way protects the identities of the deceased from the LDS Church.
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Ancestry.com just agreed to pay Family Search, which is owned by the LDS. church 60 million dollars in my book that’s affiliation.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
I’m not trying to sugarcoat Baptisms for the Dead at all. In fact if you reread the last paragraph of my post I acknowledge the perceived disrespect. I’m just skeptical that a highly unlikely information-apocalypse which would affect everyone but the Mormons is a real concern.
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just look at the history…

there is never respect shown…what makes you think it will start now?
 
agnes_therese said:
So you have some proof that they’re collecting all those family trees for Mormon baptism?
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First, I rather imagine that eager- beaver Mormon individuals will proceed with endowments on their own, without the need for top-down direction.

Secondly, databases are designed to be easy to compare and search. If we have learned anything from the recent NSA scandals it should be that if something is technologically feasible (like copying all email), sooner or later it will be done. A savvy programmer could likely pull a list un baptized records before he had finished his morning cup if Postum.

As I understand it, baptisms for the dead would equate to corporal works of mercy, a duty, in other words, of individual believers. I have visited the Family History Center in LA several times and just by observing the various forms laid out for researchers, it is clear that the process for individuals to identify and nominate candidates for proxy baptism.
 
JHow said:
First, I rather imagine that eager- beaver Mormon individuals will proceed with endowments on their own, without the need for top-down direction.

Secondly, databases are designed to be easy to compare and search. If we have learned anything from the recent NSA scandals it should be that if something is technologically feasible (like copying all email), sooner or later it will be done. A savvy programmer could likely pull a list un baptized records before he had finished his morning cup if Postum.
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True, but they can get names a lot of places; they don’t need your family tree from ancestry.com. Their own familysearch website has digitized records with millions of names --a much more accurate source than family trees with no sources, children born before their parents, etc.
And before anyone starts wondering – no, I don’t support the LDS posthumous baptisms. I’m just saying that any paranoia about ancestry.com is misplaced.
 
Still though, I wonder how the LDS would feel if some other church or cult decided to make/ collect these records & perform their own type of ordinances/ religeous ceremonies on behalf of the Dead? Eg, Gordon B Hinkley, posthumous conversion from LDS to Jehovah’s Witness or SDA… I think there would be plenty of people upset about this… :hmmm:
 
debbie_h said:
Still though, I wonder how the LDS would feel if some other church or cult decided to make/ collect these records & perform their own type of ordinances/ religeous ceremonies on behalf of the Dead? Eg, Gordon B Hinkley, posthumous conversion from LDS to Jehovah’s Witness or SDA… I think there would be plenty of people upset about this… :hmmm:
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lol…we should do that. Announce that all the former LDS “prophets” and their families and lds “apostles” and their apostles have all taken RCIA after death and have been baptized Catholic.

and that everyone they have baptized for the dead are now converted to Catholicism, undoing their baptisms…
 
agnes_therese said:
True, but they can get names a lot of places; they don’t need your family tree from ancestry.com. Their own familysearch website has digitized records with millions of names --a much more accurate source than family trees with no sources, children born before their parents, etc.
And before anyone starts wondering – no, I don’t support the LDS posthumous baptisms. I’m just saying that any paranoia about ancestry.com is misplaced.
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Well, I have family bible records that are not available anywhere else. I have viewed genealogies on ancestry dot com that are incorrect that I could correct. One member if my wife’s family is a Polish martyr. Why should I make it easy, or easier for these individuals to receive Mormon proxy baptisms? However small scale I don’t want to participate in that.
 
TexanKnight said:
lol…we should do that. Announce that all the former LDS “prophets” and their families and lds “apostles” and their apostles have all taken RCIA after death and have been baptized Catholic.

and that everyone they have baptized for the dead are now converted to Catholicism, undoing their baptisms…
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LOL. I’m not sure if it appropriate to post the link, but there is a website whereby one can posthumously make a dead Mormon gay for eternity. This website was created in a mocking response to Mormon proxy baptisms for the dead. I will neither confirm nor deny that I have made some prominent dead Mormons gay.

This website illustrates the ridiculousness in proxy baptisms for the dead so the dead can be Mormon. There is no choice in the matter and has zero actual effect on the soul.
 
TexanKnight said:
lol…we should do that. Announce that all the former LDS “prophets” and their families and lds “apostles” and their apostles have all taken RCIA after death and have been baptized Catholic.

and that everyone they have baptized for the dead are now converted to Catholicism, undoing their baptisms…
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I’m afraid Stephen Colbert beat you to the chase when he converted all the deceased Mormons to Judaism through a posthumous circumcision, using a proxy hot dog, “in the Name of the Father… and that’s it”.

colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/409086/february-23-2012/posthumous-mormon-baptism

Mormontov! 😃
 
TexanKnight said:
just look at the history…

there is never respect shown…what makes you think it will start now?
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I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that it’s highly unlikely that there will ever be a situation in which all of the world’s records are destroyed except records held by the LDS Church. That’s just fanciful thinking. The only conceivable way by which such an event could occur is by the LDS Church raising up an army, conquering the entire world, and subsequently destroying their records. That’s the only means in history by which the records of entire civilizations were destroyed and replaced by those of another. Any catastrophic event that ruins large amounts of secular records will likewise ruin their LDS counterparts.

I’m saying that concern over the perceived lack of respect is a legitimate concern. Concern over a rewriting of personal histories is not.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that it’s highly unlikely that there will ever be a situation in which all of the world’s records are destroyed except records held by the LDS Church. That’s just fanciful thinking. The only conceivable way by which such an event could occur is by the LDS Church raising up an army, conquering the entire world, and subsequently destroying their records. That’s the only means in history by which the records of entire civilizations were destroyed and replaced by those of another. Any catastrophic event that ruins large amounts of secular records will likewise ruin their LDS counterparts.

I’m saying that concern over the perceived lack of respect is a legitimate concern. Concern over a rewriting of personal histories is not.
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I do not think anyone was truly worried about that. They were worried Mormons would get names from our family trees and start baptizing

now, I do not believe the baptizing does any good, don’t get me wrong…but I STILL believe it is an invasion of privacy and disrespectful to those who died and the families of those who died. My grandfather died a very devout Catholic. How dare anyone baptize him after his death…even by proxy.

It is a disgusting practice and Mormons should be ashamed of it.
 
debbie_h said:
Still though, I wonder how the LDS would feel if some other church or cult decided to make/ collect these records & perform their own type of ordinances/ religeous ceremonies on behalf of the Dead? Eg, Gordon B Hinkley, posthumous conversion from LDS to Jehovah’s Witness or SDA… I think there would be plenty of people upset about this… :hmmm:
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I told a few LDS members that our parish prayed for the soul of GBH at the time of his death. Some expressed they were offended that we would think he needed such a thing, as he was after all, chosen by God and therefore perfect.
 
RebeccaJ said:
I told a few LDS members that our parish prayed for the soul of GBH at the time of his death. Some expressed they were offended that we would think he needed such a thing, as he was after all, chosen by God and therefore perfect.
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Chosen by God has never meant perfect. David was chosen by God. Peter was chosen by God. There is a gap in the logic there regarding Gordon B methinks.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that it’s highly unlikely that there will ever be a situation in which all of the world’s records are destroyed except records held by the LDS Church. That’s just fanciful thinking. The only conceivable way by which such an event could occur is by the LDS Church raising up an army, conquering the entire world, and subsequently destroying their records. That’s the only means in history by which the records of entire civilizations were destroyed and replaced by those of another. Any catastrophic event that ruins large amounts of secular records will likewise ruin their LDS counterparts.

I’m saying that concern over the perceived lack of respect is a legitimate concern. Concern over a rewriting of personal histories is not.
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The 1890 US Census was lost to fire. Accidents happen.
 
JHow said:
Chosen by God has never meant perfect. David was chosen by God. Peter was chosen by God. There is a gap in the logic there regarding Gordon B methinks.
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There’s a double-think in Mormonism. Their leaders are chosen by God and therefore something above everyone else, until, it can be shown they screwed up then they are “just men”.

Good luck figuring out when Mormon leaders are “just men”, and when they are being something more “chosen”.
 
Brandon_Cal said:
I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I’m saying that it’s highly unlikely that there will ever be a situation in which all of the world’s records are destroyed except records held by the LDS Church. That’s just fanciful thinking. The only conceivable way by which such an event could occur is by the LDS Church raising up an army, conquering the entire world, and subsequently destroying their records. That’s the only means in history by which the records of entire civilizations were destroyed and replaced by those of another. Any catastrophic event that ruins large amounts of secular records will likewise ruin their LDS counterparts.

I’m saying that concern over the perceived lack of respect is a legitimate concern. Concern over a rewriting of personal histories is not.
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What I believe you are missing is with many, many people doing family history searches as far back as they can, they are being mislead to believe a family member may have been mormon.

You think being concerned about rewriting personal histories is not a concern? For many it is a matter of heritage. Not just affiliation.

I am 100% Irish, 5th generation in the USA, and am very proud of my Roman Catholic heritage. If I were to do some research and find that back somewhere one of my grandparents is listed as mormon, I would be shocked. Would that mean my Roman Catholic heritage was a deviation from what the family really was, or is it mormons rewriting history. Same thing would apply to the Jews from the Holocaust.
 
iepuras said:
LOL. I’m not sure if it appropriate to post the link, but there is a website whereby one can posthumously make a dead Mormon gay for eternity. This website was created in a mocking response to Mormon proxy baptisms for the dead. I will neither confirm nor deny that I have made some prominent dead Mormons gay.

This website illustrates the ridiculousness in proxy baptisms for the dead so the dead can be Mormon. There is no choice in the matter and has zero actual effect on the soul.
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I LOVE that site 🙂
 
Suffice to say that all past lds “prophets” and some “apostles” are now gay eternally.

I think that renders all their baptisms invalid…
 
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