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netmilsmom
Guest
Sister?Now when our sister does the mass one day we kneel and say the Our Father and she is ok with this and we all do so this is more about unity I guess!
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MikeG
Guest
It is interesting that these small gestures generate such interest and heat. The old Latin Mass had a lot of kissing and crossing and genuflecting. But there was not any touching and holding hands. I recall the priest kissing the altar and the missal, a lot of crossings, and genuflections scattered about. In the context of the mysterious Latin Rite, they picked the curiousity of the viewers. āWhatās Father doing?ā Fortunately, they were well explained in sermons and pamphlets that lead us to an understanding of respect for the rite and its contents.
Now we have a lot of gestures, some of which are prescribed by the missal and some of which, though they obviously move the gesturers, have no basis in the text. So would it hurt to explain things once in a while? This is what we do, and this is why we do it. I would hate to see the Mass so standardized that only gestures sanctioned by the Vatican were allowed. On the other hand, sorting out a bewildering array of local practices is a real challenge for newcomers and visitors. Bring back the commentator!
Now we have a lot of gestures, some of which are prescribed by the missal and some of which, though they obviously move the gesturers, have no basis in the text. So would it hurt to explain things once in a while? This is what we do, and this is why we do it. I would hate to see the Mass so standardized that only gestures sanctioned by the Vatican were allowed. On the other hand, sorting out a bewildering array of local practices is a real challenge for newcomers and visitors. Bring back the commentator!
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catsrus
Guest
Yesterday, I attended the 9:30 A.M. ācomtemporaryā Mass at my Church for the 1st time.
I always go to the 11:00 A.M. "solemn Mass.
Itās back to 11:00 A.M. for me.
I havenāt seen that much hand waving since the Newman Center I used to attend.
And the drums were so loud I couldnāt hear the sung words of the Psalm.
I always go to the 11:00 A.M. "solemn Mass.
Itās back to 11:00 A.M. for me.
I havenāt seen that much hand waving since the Newman Center I used to attend.
And the drums were so loud I couldnāt hear the sung words of the Psalm.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Honestly though, itās really nice that your parish offers both kinds of worship. This is the way it should be. Pitifully in most places, you would be hard pressed to find the āSolemn Massā.
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catsrus
Guest
Oh, that is so true!
I was thrilled to find a Church that offers it!
They also offer a Spanish Mass and a Filipino Mass.
I (whine, whine) just wish the Solemn Mass was somewhat earlier. Iām not a sleeper and am up at 6 even on the weekends. I would rather go to Mass shortly after rising.
You are correct though, I should just be happy we have it.
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netmilsmom
Guest
You are very blessed!
We have a Slovak language Holy Mass. I would rather attend that than most of the āHappy Catholicā communities in my area!
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Tietjen
Guest
Drums?!
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catsrus
Guest
Oh yeah!originally posted by Tietjen
Drums?!
Thatās just one reason Iām going back to the Solemn Mass. I prefer an organ and a choir, incense, bells, etc.
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demerzel85
Guest
How I would do the gestures is really slight and not intrusive. And yet there is no problem bowing each time at the Holy Name of Jesus even though it is not mentioned in the GIRM.
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dessert
Guest
Iām sorry I should have been more accurate she is a nun, it is called word and communion. Our unity was just kneeling while saying the Our Father and not all can as some people have very bad knees. Desert, return from
For the Lord is good;
His mercy is everlasting.
And His truth endures to all generations. Psalm 100:5
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netmilsmom
Guest
No, bowing your head in the name of Jesus is TRADITION. You do it in Mass and out of mass.
Gesturing back to the priest is not.
Prayer rugs are not.
Shorlking is not.
Waving is not.
Hands raised over your head and swaying is not.
If it is not there, donāt do it. See? Go to JustDaveās article and read the explaination.
You are not to add any of your private gestures to the liturgy. No matter how much you āfeel itā.
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wynd
Guest
Actually it is in the GIRM.
- A bow signifies reverence and honor shown to the persons themselves or to the signs that represent them. There are two kinds of bows: a bow of the head and a bow of the body.
*]A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.
*]A bow of the body, that is to say a profound bow, is made to the altar; during the prayers Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart) and In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive); in the Creed at the words Et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . made man); in the Roman Canon at the words Supplices te rogamus (Almighty God, we pray that your angel). The same kind of bow is made by the deacon when he asks for a blessing before the proclamation of the Gospel. In addition, the priest bows slightly as he speaks the words of the Lord at the consecration.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Wow!
Good catch!
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Orionthehunter
Guest
First, I want to state that I donāt do the āgestureā, hold hands except with my wife and children/grandchildren, and donāt raise my hands during the Our Father.
But, let me ask some questions:
Why do we genuflect when we enter a Church? To show others that we have respect? No. We do it to conform our bodies with our minds and hearts.
Why do we kneel during the Consecration? To show others we are pious? No. We do it to conform our bodyās posture with that of our mind and hearts.
Why do we kneel on both knees upon entering a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel? To show others of our piety? No. We do it to conform our bodyās posture with that of our heart and minds.
Catholic practice is filled with physical expressions to not only conform our posture with that of our heart and mind but also to reinforce that what should be in our heart and mind. Catholic theology understands that we are not like angels (spirit beings) but beings with a body. Our mind, body, will, soul are all part and integrated with our being made in Godās image. We can neither deny, denigrate, or minimize one without doing the same to them all. The Catholic Teaching regarding works is an outward expression of our love and fidelity to Christ.
We do it every day lives all the time. I donāt have kiss my wife good bye in the morning or say I love you after every phone call to love my wife or children. But the physical and verbal conforms our acts to that what we feel in our heart and mind.
Frankly, while I donāt make this gesture, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, it looks quite Catholic to me as it is an outward physical expression of what is in our heart and mind.
On a side note, my parish is assigned to minister to the deaf community in our city. At our Mass, you should see all the hands a going among the deaf and the hearing. We have kids trying to follow with signer throughout the Mass, most people sign the Alleluluia, Lord/Christ have Mercy, the Amen, etc. Again, while I donāt do it, when I see it going on it looks so Catholic.
But, let me ask some questions:
Why do we genuflect when we enter a Church? To show others that we have respect? No. We do it to conform our bodies with our minds and hearts.
Why do we kneel during the Consecration? To show others we are pious? No. We do it to conform our bodyās posture with that of our mind and hearts.
Why do we kneel on both knees upon entering a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel? To show others of our piety? No. We do it to conform our bodyās posture with that of our heart and minds.
Catholic practice is filled with physical expressions to not only conform our posture with that of our heart and mind but also to reinforce that what should be in our heart and mind. Catholic theology understands that we are not like angels (spirit beings) but beings with a body. Our mind, body, will, soul are all part and integrated with our being made in Godās image. We can neither deny, denigrate, or minimize one without doing the same to them all. The Catholic Teaching regarding works is an outward expression of our love and fidelity to Christ.
We do it every day lives all the time. I donāt have kiss my wife good bye in the morning or say I love you after every phone call to love my wife or children. But the physical and verbal conforms our acts to that what we feel in our heart and mind.
Frankly, while I donāt make this gesture, I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, it looks quite Catholic to me as it is an outward physical expression of what is in our heart and mind.
On a side note, my parish is assigned to minister to the deaf community in our city. At our Mass, you should see all the hands a going among the deaf and the hearing. We have kids trying to follow with signer throughout the Mass, most people sign the Alleluluia, Lord/Christ have Mercy, the Amen, etc. Again, while I donāt do it, when I see it going on it looks so Catholic.
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netmilsmom
Guest
I would truly like to lay prostrate (double checked the spelling this time) at the consecration. It looks really Catholic and I truly believe that I am not worthy to look upon Our Lord. Am I allowed to per the rubics? No.
Innovation is innovation. As Cardinal Arinze stated, if itās not there, donāt do it.
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fix
Guest
I would add that it would seem we ought to draw a distinction between those gestures that are authentic custom, like genuflection, that have grown part of tradition in the mass and those that are spontaneously introduced by our own initiative like the hand thingy you all are speaking about.
Question- Where does it all end? How much is too much? Who gets to introduce all this stuff without proper approval?
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ncjohn
Guest
Hi Net!
Iāve seen you make this statement a few times now and it might be a good idea to produce the source for it. Everything I heard was that his comment was that āthe GIRM is right.ā End of statement.
Iāve seen no one else claim any such statement as āif itās not there, donāt do itā, though some might like to interpret it that way. In all fairness, since you are quite comfortable asking for documentation, I would really like to see the documentation backing this statement up as it is already taking on āurban legendā status here and if something is going to be attributed to the head of the CDW it should be accurate.
By the way, I also donāt participate in this particular gesture though I do see it on a limited basis. Doesnāt particularly bother me though.
Peace,
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netmilsmom
Guest
Since I heard it live, and so far the CD is not out, you can ask here.
holytrinityapostolate.com/
I heard it on Ave Maria radio. You could ask them as well.
However, when I stated this on the thread about the Breakfast, no one dispute it. Maybe you could ask Diane to verify it. I do know what I heard though!
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MrS
Guest
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_201.gif
Is this acceptable???
,
smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb113&pp=ZN
Is this acceptable???
,
smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb113&pp=ZN
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ncjohn
Guest
Well, the statement you make here is quite different even from the one you made in the original thread. Regardless, such statements shouldnāt be made as fact if documentation canāt be produced to back them up, as you often rightly demand.
Peace,
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