And also with you!

[Dr.Bombay]

Mysty101:

I feel you are being rediculous in your attitude toward your brothers & sisters in Christ, but I will not sin because of it.

God bless you, and may the Spitit enlighten you.

There are actually ridiculous people in this world who have no clue they are ridiculous. It is CHARITY to inform them of their ridiculousness.

The non-ridiculous have an obligation to instruct the ridiculous. Otherwise, the ridiculous go thru life thinking they are non-ridiculous. The ridiculous believing themselves to be non-ridiculous while continuing to engage in ridiculousness? This is a sure recipe for anarchy. :nope:

 

[misericordie]

FrmrTrad:

The redundancy of “and also” strikes me as fatuous. I sometimes give myself a break at that point and say “and with your spirit” which, IIRC, is what the Latin states at this point. Hoc modo aliam translationem diram declino. Nonne “Et cum spiritu tuo” melius sonat?

“and also with you” is probably the worse translation there is, and what’s worse is that no priest can say otherwise in Mass but must follow exactly what’s in the Novus Ordo Missal or some Bishop can take him to task. I remeber one priest who used say CHALICE instead of “cup” while celebrating Mass. he never got called to task for this, though he could have. I TOTALLY personally dislike the word “cup” and would prefer chalice. I would say chalice, after actually thinking of it. Though if there is an outside concelebrating priest or some beauracrat bishop in the Mass (if I were a priest celebrating) I would say CUP, so as to avoid contraversy, UNLESS I was at an ULTRA faithful diocese with a good Bishop Cardinal which is NOT the case now with the Arch-Bishop Cardinal we have here::banghead:

 

[Elzee]

misericordie:

I agree, ha ha. It’s also called mimics. It’s not their fault, it’s just that some pastors are too lazy to take a week to offer for maybe one hour a day lessons to the laity on the rubrics and the Roman Missal, as well as what the the laity do or do not do in Mass.
Another favorite of mine is the hippy peace symbol with the two fingures during the sign of peace.

I see mostly people over 70 doing the ‘hippie peace’. Call me inconsistent, but I have to admit this one puts a smile on my face when it’s coming from a 90 year old blue-haired lady to another 90 year old blue-haired lady across the aisle.

 

[Mysty101]

Dr. Bombay:

There are actually ridiculous people in this world who have no clue they are ridiculous. It is CHARITY to inform them of their ridiculousness.

The non-ridiculous have an obligation to instruct the ridiculous. Otherwise, the ridiculous go thru life thinking they are non-ridiculous. The ridiculous believing themselves to be non-ridiculous while continuing to engage in ridiculousness? This is a sure recipe for anarchy. :nope:

Instruct—not redicule or mock. And it is not up to you to correct any member of the congregation at Mass. You are instructed to report abuses “in a charitable Manner”. You report an abuse and let the proper authority do the correcting.

 

[netmilsmom]

Mysty101:

I see, so it is OK to be uncharitable toward someone with whom you disagree?

Do you understand the term “Body of Christ”?

It is the whole Church—the entire church (including the Charismatic movement)

That is not what the quote says. It says “Participate WITH them in the SAME litugy.”

I don’t consider it to be uncharitable to point out the innovations that are disrupting to a liturgy. Other people here beside me feel that it is disruptive.

If one has an too open of a mind, sometimes it falls out.

 

[Anima_Christi]

Hopefully in a few years, once the new translation of the Missal is approved, we will be saying “And with YOUR SPIRIT” and “Lord, I am not that you should come under my roof, but only say the word and MY SOUL shall be healed.” I can’t wait. :dancing:

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Mysty101:

Instruct—not redicule or mock. And it is not up to you to correct any member of the congregation at Mass. You are instructed to report abuses “in a charitable Manner”. You report an abuse and let the proper authority do the correcting.

Ahhhhhh, come on. Ridiculing’s a lot more fun.

How 'bout if I just snicker politely at them behind my hand?

 

[Mysty101]

I really cannot understand how you can feel justified in you attitude and words toward your brothers & sisters in Christ.

These are prayer postures & gestures, not abusive situations. No one of you has found one official document to support your position. The whole gospel tells how wrong is your attitude.

1Cor 13:13

 

[Anima_Christi]

Mysty101:

Instruct—not redicule or mock. And it is not up to you to correct any member of the congregation at Mass. You are instructed to report abuses “in a charitable Manner”. You report an abuse and let the proper authority do the correcting.

Mysty, right now we’re not reporting abuses, we’re just making fun of them, so we don’t have to be charitable.
Folks, Mysty is apparently one of those folks who reach over and snatch your hand before you can blink during the Our Father, and does all the goofy postures and gestures during Mass, and sways trancelike to the noise of the folk choir belching out Kum Ba Ya and Gather Us In accompanied by bongo drums and electric Yamahas, etc., etc., etc. I bet HER faith community doesn’t even use organs in Mass.
Sorry Mysty, hope you don’t mind a little good-natured ridicule!

 

[carol_marie]

I am a very NEW Catholic & I thought we were supposed to open our hands toward the Priest when we said, “And also with you.” After all, he opens his hands towards us?? I had no idea it was wrong & now I’m very embarassed at the thought that other, much more pious, experienced Catholics such as yourselves were actually making fun of me behind my back. How terribly uncharitable.

 

[Steve_Green]

I am ok with it , if they would just say the proper Latin translation

AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT !!!

 

[netmilsmom]

carol marie:

I am a very NEW Catholic & I thought we were supposed to open our hands toward the Priest when we said, “And also with you.” After all, he opens his hands towards us?? I had no idea it was wrong & now I’m very embarassed at the thought that other, much more pious, experienced Catholics such as yourselves were actually making fun of me behind my back. How terribly uncharitable.

Don’t worry about it. I get the same when I wear a chapel cap when I pray.
We are all uncomfortable sometimes.
A big lesson learned is don’t just do what everyone else does and stand up for your convictions.
Now you can be the leader in your church and show all the others who have know idea why they do what they do.
Bless you for wanting to find out!

 

[Anima_Christi]

carol marie:

I am a very NEW Catholic & I thought we were supposed to open our hands toward the Priest when we said, “And also with you.” After all, he opens his hands towards us?? I had no idea it was wrong & now I’m very embarassed at the thought that other, much more pious, experienced Catholics such as yourselves were actually making fun of me behind my back. How terribly uncharitable.

I apologize, Carol Marie. Be certain, though, that we are really only making fun of the people who are the . . . shall we say . . . ringleaders of this kind of unapproved gesture. No doubt many of the people use gestures such as these are only doing so because that is what everyone else in the congregation is doing and they do not know any better. Personally, whenever I’ve seen it done it is by a handful of people in the congregation (save for a Lifeteen Mass!). The “scoop” isn’t a SERIOUS abuse–and much less aggravating than holding hands during the Our Father–but it is certainly annoying to people who know better!
In less-than-faithful parishes, we can set GOOD examples for other parishioners by bowing profoundly during the “by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man”, and keeping our hands to ourselves!

 

[Sanctus]

Dr. Bombay:

If people do ridiculous things, they should be ridiculed. Mercilessly.

If more ridiculous people were ridiculed more often, perhaps they’d stop being ridiculous.

This quote can apply to other areas of life too–Work, School, etc.

 

[Mysty101]

Anima Christi:

In less-than-faithful parishes, we can set GOOD examples for other parishioners by bowing profoundly during the “by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man”, and keeping our hands to ourselves!

…and by ridiculing that which we have judged to be wrong (albeit without any official documention)???

Yep—great example.

Someone did post regarding your lack of charity.

Just look at the number of views, and realize what you are showing people (probably some considering converting). I sincerely hope your “good example” does not turn any possible converts away.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Isn’t calling someone uncharitable…uhhhhhh…uncharitable???

Could be ridiculous…

 

[FrmrTrad]

mozier:

And don’t you just know it? Half of the congregation responded absentmindedly, “And also with you!” Sad, isn’t it?

Still, it’s not a bad instinct to have absorbed.

 

[rcn]

Steve Green:

I am ok with it , if they would just say the proper Latin translation

AND WITH YOUR SPIRIT !!!

Which grammatically makes no sense whatsoever, as a response to “The Lord be with you.” So I hope that this change is not made.

 

[rcn]

Anima Christi:

In less-than-faithful parishes, we can set GOOD examples for other parishioners by bowing profoundly during the “by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary and became man”, and keeping our hands to ourselves!

You’d really assert that parishes that don’t meet your standards are “less-than-faithful”? Really?

I mean, I have my own preferences about not holding hands, and other things. But I would never try to claim that a Catholic parish is less-than-faithful over such relatively minor concerns.

 

[rcn]

mozier:

Two weeks ago, on Trinity Sunday, the epistle reading ended with the words from St. Paul, “the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all!”

And don’t you just know it? Half of the congregation responded absentmindedly, “And also with you!”

Sad, isn’t it?

I think quite a few people in my parish did it too. And it’s fairly common for a few people to say “Amen” whenever a phrase in a reading should happen to end with “forever and ever”.

These are just simple reflex things. They are not “sad” or “less-than-faithful” or any of the other absurd accusations made in this bizarre thread.