...and even more questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Miserissima
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Miserissima

Guest
Hi everyone, I have a few more questions about last Sunday’s Divine Liturgy.

Different people stood with votive candle holders at the end of the aisle (or in front of the sanctuary).At which parts of the Divine Liturgy did this happen and why?

We do not have an iconostasis, but what are the physical elements of the sanctuary called? Is there a type of chart that points to each piece with its name?

Is there also a chart to name the physical elements of the church, and the names of the vestments?
 
I edited to add links to examples of RC items:
Hi everyone, I have a few more questions about last Sunday’s Divine Liturgy.

Different people stood with votive candle holders at the end of the aisle (or in front of the sanctuary).At which parts of the Divine Liturgy did this happen and why?

We do not have an iconostasis, but what are the elements of the sanctuary called? Is there a type of chart that points to each piece with its name?

Is there also a chart to name the physical elements of the church, and the names of the vestments?
 
On vestments, although I generally shy away from citing Wikipedia articles, this one is at least a start on terminology: Liturgical Vestments

I’ll send you another online reference shortly, with good “visual aids”

In the meantime, here’s a treat for you - a familiar face in unfamiliar vestments …

 
The key features of a Byzantine Catholic church are graphically represented and explained in some detail here, courtesy of St. Thomas the Apostle BCC, Rahway, NJ. Click on any one of the three-bar crosses for further details.
 
On vestments, although I generally shy away from citing Wikipedia articles, this one is at least a start on terminology: Liturgical Vestments
I actually think Wikipedia is a great source a lot of the time for stuff related to us. 🙂 When I go to OrthodoxWiki they usually have less info than Wiki and at the bottom it turns out many times they’ve cited Wikipedia. 🙂

Also, St. Elias UGCC in Brampton, ON has a website that is practically an encyclopedia. 😉 Here is a nice sketch of a temple and here is a good description of clergy, plus sub-deacon, and their apparel. I’ve been having a bit of trouble getting some links to open there. There is also a section perhaps meant for those at the altar which give a whole run down on “Serving at Divine Services” which goes into details that include clerical garb and much more. I can’t seem to access it now.

Anyway, Miserissima, if you poke around the St. Elias website you’ll find lots of very useful information.

As to people standing with votive candle holders, I am clueless. Maybe as you indicate it has something to do with making do with a borrowed space. Please go back for another DL, ask them, and come back and tell us. 🙂
 
On vestments, although I generally shy away from citing Wikipedia articles, this one is at least a start on terminology: Liturgical Vestments

I’ll send you another online reference shortly, with good “visual aids”

In the meantime, here’s a treat for you - a familiar face in unfamiliar vestments …

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xfxeI-JqMfc/TkRSCHziQTI/AAAAAAAABE0/uWZQFMLhNL0/s400/fsheen.jpg
One of my favorite pictures of Syedna Sheen! An Irish Melkite!!! Best of all worlds in my opinion. 👍
 
One of my favorite pictures of Syedna Sheen! An Irish Melkite!!! Best of all worlds in my opinion. 👍
How strange though, to see a man so clean-shaven in wearing an Eastern mitre. I wonder what he would have looked like with a beard. 😃
 
I actually think Wikipedia is a great source a lot of the time for stuff related to us. 🙂 When I go to OrthodoxWiki they usually have less info than Wiki and at the bottom it turns out many times they’ve cited Wikipedia. 🙂
Sometimes, yes - just gotta double check some of the “facts” occasionally
Also, St. Elias UGCC in Brampton, ON has a website that is practically an encyclopedia. 😉 Here is a nice sketch of a temple and here is a good description of clergy, plus sub-deacon, and their apparel.
Very good resources - thanks 5Loaves. Fr. Galadza and his parish family are exemplary. I would also recommend their YouTube channel to those interested in Ukrainian worship and chant tradition.
 
I am so very grateful for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thank you for the responses! i am just curious…it’s not like I’m going to build a chapel or anything like that :o. (My icon corner is just the right size, TYVM :p)
Anyway, Miserissima, if you poke around the St. Elias website you’ll find lots of very useful information.
There is a wealth of particular church websites that have excellent resources; thanks to each of you for taking the time to hook me up with them.
As to people standing with votive candle holders, I am clueless. Maybe as you indicate it has something to do with making do with a borrowed space. Please go back for another DL, ask them, and come back and tell us. 🙂
If I don’t get there this Sunday, I will certainly go next Sunday.

On a quasi-related note: I’d like to approach the priest next week and introduce myself. Is there a particular protocol?
 
On a quasi-related note: I’d like to approach the priest next week and introduce myself. Is there a particular protocol?
The Ruthenians never really practice the “kissing of hand / ring”, so I’m sure a simple “Hello, my name is ____” will suffice and be greeted with the same level of welcome that you have already experienced there. This is a mission parish, after all, and part of the mission is to attract potential parishioners.

If you really wanted to hit it off well, you could simply initiate with the traditional EC greeting of “Glory to Jesus Christ!” (to which he would respond “Glory forever!”
 
The Ruthenians never really practice the “kissing of hand / ring”, so I’m sure a simple “Hello, my name is ____” will suffice and be greeted with the same level of welcome that you have already experienced there. This is a mission parish, after all, and part of the mission is to attract potential parishioners.
Bummer…
The rest of us, LOL, approach the priest, or bishop, hands held palms upward, right hand over left and say “Father, Bless” , or with the bishop “Master, Bless” (or could be said in Russian or Ukrainian etc.) bowing slightly. He makes the sign of the cross over you saying a blessing and then presents that hand which you kiss. It’s such a wonderful greeting. I’m sorry the Ruthenians have abandoned it.

Also, we may if he initiates it do something similar to the kiss of peace-- embracing right cheeks, then left cheeks, then again right cheeks. We will do this embrace at Forgiveness Vespers in my parish when we ask each other for forgiveness, including the priests.
If you really wanted to hit it off well, you could simply initiate with the traditional EC greeting of “Glory to Jesus Christ!” (to which he would respond “Glory forever!”
An all purpose greeting! 🙂 Except after Pascha. 😃
 
How strange though, to see a man so clean-shaven in wearing an Eastern mitre. I wonder what he would have looked like with a beard. 😃


Please note this was not meant to offend or make fun of the good Archbishop. I’m a huge fan of his and to be honest when you asked the question I just felt compelled to find out what he would look like with a beard.

I hope I didn’t offend anyone. If I did I am truly sorry.
 
The Lord has truly blessed me with knowledgeable people both face-to-face and on the Internet. I think Him, and I thank each of you.

First: o_O at the picture of Venerable Fulton Sheen. It really did blow my mind. Thank you for the links to the names of items and their uses. I noticed – through your generous work – that each EC parish (is that the right word, I don’t think so) with a website usually has some great information, but it takes a bit of mining.
  • Speaking of Ven. Fulton Sheen, that reminds me: The Martyrology of the Byzantine Church is ex-pan-sive, even to include OT persons and events. Are there Venerables and Blesseds in the Byzantine Rite? Can the EC and the RC share the same saints? Is the canonization process same / not same / recognized by each other?
  • Also, a non-sequitur question: a note in our bulletin reads, “Liturgy Stipends*—** *Please remember that our Eparchy has increase the stipends for liturgies from X dollars to Y dollars.”
I thought a stipend was a free-will offering; to me, a “stipend increase” sounds as oxymorinic as saying, “mandatory donation.” I’m not questioning stipends proper, or their amounts, or why they’re a good thing. But I always scratch my head when I hear there’s an increase in a free will offering, though (even in the RC).

Finally, what is a Liturgy Stipend? Is it offered to remember someone during the Divine Liturgy? Is it offered in thanks for performing a Mystery (Baptism / Communion / Chrismation or a wedding)? Is it what we’re supposed to put in the collection basket on Sunday? :confused:
 
A Liturgy Stipend is a payment made for an intention at the Divine Liturgy. Typical Liturgy intentions are for the faithful departed, health and God’s blessings for the ill or infirmed, or for the faithful in general. I know in our parish, they were for some time embarrassinging low ($10 for a Divine Liturgy; $5 for a Panachida / Moleben after Divine Liturgy). I believe the Eparchy may have set minimum limits for these Liturgy Stipends.

It is an interesting notion on many counts. Here’s an excerpt coming from a Liturgical Committee meeting in the Melkite church:
The practice of “Mass Stipends” related to a sum of money is a western usage. The East knows the gifts: the eucharistic bread with a free gift of money. Many people present the bread at the same Liturgy and the priest commemorates all those who offered their gifts. Thus, to bind the Liturgy to a gift of money is unknown in the Christian East. For this purpose we have the practice to mention many intentions at the same Liturgy. We, in the East, have the practice to present gifts also outside the Divine Liturgy and to remember the people’s intentions during the Paraclesis, the Blessing of Oil, Vespers or during the Blessing of Water. In this vein we can mention the Presanctified Liturgy. We ask the Holy Synod to give a clear teaching about “Mass stipends” in the Eastern Churches and an explanation to the faithful of the Western Church, who intend to give stipends to priests from the Eastern Church. We propose that the priest takes one Liturgy stipend during the day and if he receives more, he may put them in the gift box, give them to the poor or add them to the gifts for parochial projects. The new Eastern Canon Law, published in 1991, allows us to take a stipend for the Presanctified Liturgy.
Let me translate a bit - a Liturgy Stipend in Eastern tradition is actually paid to the priest. As noted above, "to bind the Liturgy to a gift of money is unknown in the Christian East ". To have the stipend go to the Church would be to bind the Liturgy to money (the gifts generally given by all, absent an intention, do not bind as they are voluntary).

Yet, the practice continues, and I am surprised (for the reasons alluded to above) that the Eparchy might get involved in setting standards for such, but not entirely so. It could also be that the mission church, which is dependent on multiple sources for support, might have asked the Eparchy for guidance. If the mission is served by a bi-ritual priest, there may be other considerations, as well.

You will note that there is an expectation that a priest would not accept more than one stipend per day and, if so, he would give the “excess” (from bination, in the case of two liturgical intentions) to charity or back to the parish. In this way, it becomes a personal, separate donation from the priest. For many years in the Eparchy of Passaic, binations were reserved for support of the seminary.

I always hate getting into these things, because many would like to argue that the Church has become a business in some respects. However, among the faithful, its easy to see otherwise. We should never ask more of the Church than we give of ourselves. The Liturgy is for everyone, by its nature. If we ask a private intention in the Liturgy, whether the money goes to the priest or elsewhere, remember that you are supporting your Church nonetheless with this stipend.

😃 Oh wow! Post 1,000! But no balloons? 😦
 
Byz: I didn’t meant to get into the seedy perspective of “just remuneration,” and thank you for looking that up for me. I need to remember that stipends are always a gift and not a price.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top