And for $9 an adult can get into church

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****A Holiday Concert with The Dady Brothers ****
Saturday evening, December 10, 2005 at 7 p.m. is sure to be an evening of fine music and fun at St. Matthew Church, Route 20A in Livonia, New York. The well known Dady Brothers along with Roxanne Ziegler will perform a holiday concert for the community.
Tickets are available at the St. Matthew Parish Office, (585) 346-3815, West Shurfine in Livonia, The 1812 Country Store in Hemlock, Livonia Pharmacy in Lakeville and Julie’s Floral and Gifts in Conesus. Adults are $9. Seniors and children 4-12 are $5. and children 3 and under are free.
The Dady Brothers have been entertaining audiences for almost 30 years with rousing Irish ballads, toe tapping reels, and silly children’s songs for the child in all of us. Roxanne Ziegler has inspired many as she entertains audiences as an accomplished harpist.
All are invited to come and enjoy an evening of great family entertainment. Refreshments will be served.

The above announcement is posted at a parish online bulletin. Wow! Adults are $9. Seniors and children 4-12 are $5. and children 3 and under are free. What a deal. :rolleyes:
Yep! This annual Christmas concert is held in the nave of the church even though there is a large parish center…I guess the accoustics are better and the seating is more plentiful in the nave.

I don’t care if Frank Sinatra came back to life to croon Silent Night I still would not buy a ticket for entertainment in the church.

Does your parish host entertainment in your church…where exactly?
 
EWTN has a document on this that might answer your post. I haven’t read the whole thing, but merely researched it for your benefit.

Concerts in Church
 
Here is an exerpt from the document. I’ll embolden the pertinent part. I hope this isn’t too long of an excerpt for CAF rules.

*In order that the sacred character of a church be conserved in the matter of concerts, the Ordinary can specify that:

a. Requests are to be made in writing, in good time, indicating the date and time of the proposed concert, the programme giving the works and the names of the composers.

b. After having received the authorization of the Ordinary, the rectors and parish priests of the churches should arrange details with the choir and orchestra so that the requisite norms are observed.

c. Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all.

d. The performers and the audience must be dressed in a manner which is fitting to the sacred character of the place.

e. The musicians and the singers should not be placed in the sanctuary. The greatest respect is to be shown to the altar, the president’s chair and the ambo.

f. The Blessed Sacrament should be, as far as possible, reserved in a side chapel or in another safe and suitably adorned place (cf. C.I.C., can 938, par. 4).

g. The concert should be presented or introduced not only with historical or technical details, but also in a way that fosters a deeper understanding and an interior participation on the part of the listeners.

h. The organizer of the concert shall declare in writing that he accepts legal responsibility for expenses involved, for leaving the church in order, and for any possible damage incurred.
*

Also, read this part, which says that the music must be religiously inspiring. From the above description, the music offered is secular, not religious.

*8. The regulation of the use of churches is stipulated by canon 1210 of the Code of Canon law:

“In a sacred place only those things are to be permitted which serve to exercise or promote worship, piety and religion. Anything out of harmony with the holiness of the place is forbidden. The Ordinary may, however, for individual cases, permit other uses, provided they are not contrary to the sacred character of the place”.

The principle that the use of the church must not offend the sacredness of the place determines the criteria by which the doors of a church may be opened to a concert of sacred or religious music, as also the concomitant exclusion of every other type of music. The most beautiful symphonic music, for example, is not in itself of religious character. The definition of sacred or religious music depends explicitly on the original intended use of the musical pieces or songs, and likewise on their content. It is not legitimate to provide for the execution in the church of music which is not of religious inspiration and which was composed with a view to performance in a certain precise secular context, irrespective of whether the music would be judged classical or contemporary, of high quality or of a popular nature. On the one hand, such performances would not respect the sacred character of the church, and on the other, would result in the music being performed in an unfitting context.*
 
Free printable tickets! Free printable tickets! Here get your free printable tickets!
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spiritblows:
From the Congregation of Divine Worship

c. Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all.
Click to expand...
 
We have " churches " in this diocese that are considered utility buildings. No pews . No kneelers . Just chairs with can be taken out. They have Mass on Sunday morning and then Sunday afternoon close circuit TV football complete with a keg of beer and it seems fine with the " local Ordinary ". Dances are common with food and drink. Then there is a big three day rummage sale. Where did this concept come from ?**
 
Would it be legal to stand in the parking lot of church and hand out papers with these words printed on it?
From the Congregation of Divine Worship
Click to expand...
c. Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all.
*
 
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spiritblows:
Here is an exerpt from the document. I’ll embolden the pertinent part. I hope this isn’t too long of an excerpt for CAF rules.

In order that the sacred character of a church be conserved in the matter of concerts, the Ordinary can specify that:

a. Requests are to be made in writing, in good time, indicating the date and time of the proposed concert, the programme giving the works and the names of the composers.

b. After having received the authorization of the Ordinary, the rectors and parish priests of the churches should arrange details with the choir and orchestra so that the requisite norms are observed.

c. Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all.

d. The performers and the audience must be dressed in a manner which is fitting to the sacred character of the place.

e. The musicians and the singers should not be placed in the sanctuary. The greatest respect is to be shown to the altar, the president’s chair and the ambo.

f. The Blessed Sacrament should be, as far as possible, reserved in a side chapel or in another safe and suitably adorned place (cf. C.I.C., can 938, par. 4).

g. The concert should be presented or introduced not only with historical or technical details, but also in a way that fosters a deeper understanding and an interior participation on the part of the listeners.

h. The organizer of the concert shall declare in writing that he accepts legal responsibility for expenses involved, for leaving the church in order, and for any possible damage incurred.

Also, read this part, which says that the music must be religiously inspiring. From the above description, the music offered is secular, not religious.

8. The regulation of the use of churches is stipulated by canon 1210 of the Code of Canon law:

“In a sacred place only those things are to be permitted which serve to exercise or promote worship, piety and religion. Anything out of harmony with the holiness of the place is forbidden. The Ordinary may, however, for individual cases, permit other uses, provided they are not contrary to the sacred character of the place”.

The principle that the use of the church must not offend the sacredness of the place determines the criteria by which the doors of a church may be opened to a concert of sacred or religious music, as also the concomitant exclusion of every other type of music. The most beautiful symphonic music, for example, is not in itself of religious character. The definition of sacred or religious music depends explicitly on the original intended use of the musical pieces or songs, and likewise on their content. It is not legitimate to provide for the execution in the church of music which is not of religious inspiration and which was composed with a view to performance in a certain precise secular context, irrespective of whether the music would be judged classical or contemporary, of high quality or of a popular nature. On the one hand, such performances would not respect the sacred character of the church, and on the other, would result in the music being performed in an unfitting context.
Click to expand...
We can’t get people to do “D” for Mass.

Our concerts are always “free will offering”
 
I am going to take the opposing sand on this.

Since the concert is not a Liturgical, I believe the parish has the right to charge to cover expenses.

As for this being held in the nave (which I did not see in the posting), that is another issue all together.

PF
 
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WanderAimlessly:
As for this being held in the nave (which I did not see in the posting), that is another issue all together.

PF
Click to expand...
Oh yes it is in the nave. It is one of those fairly new plain/stripped churches. The Tabernacle is placed in the nave but waaay out in ‘outfield’ of the nave…not at all the centerpoint. The altar table was pushed back against the wall allowing for the musical group to play their religious and non-religious music last year. The Blessed Sacrament was removed from the Tabernacle and placed in the Chapel. What I don’t like is that the altar table is pushed back for these performers to strum their stuff. I don’t like the thought of people feeling they must pay in order to get into church. The church becomes a money exchange/concert hall for entertainment rather than a house of worship.

**
From the Congregation of Divine Worship
c. Entrance to the church must be without payment and open to all.

**
 
My thought is that the Church is not a Concert Hall. It is a building that houses the very body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ. I would however agree with a free will offering as another poster suggests to help cover expenses. The group that will be performing in our church is non-profit and they get together and do this for fun. Lets try to support them finacially for their music and such, but lets not charge admission to come into the real presence.
 
joshua1 I would however agree with a free will offering as another poster suggests to help cover expenses. . [/QUOTE said:
I agree with you here. I went to a Catholic church some time ago for a concert of ancient Christian music…I was trying to fulfil my course requirements for a college class I was taking at the time. I hesitated to go but found out from the pastor ahead a time that ALL the music was to be religious. I went…there was a free-will offering…the music was great…until someone in the musical group decided to give a little encore of non-religious music. I could tell this freaked the pastor out.

This concert that I went to a few years ago advertised itself as free…free-will offering accepted…important.
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Thanks for sharing the discouraging news. Another example of what goes on under Bishop Matthew Clark. He quite apparently stands behind this stuff, which is typical of the plethera of Church abuses and Mass abuses that go on every day around here.

And its another example of how the Diocese partners with the church staff to railroad such things through in our Catholic Churches in Rochester. It makes us sick. It causes such division. There are people in that parish who complain, but they are not listened to.

And when parishoners for years are shamefully not taught the basics of their faith, you have a large majority of parishoners who shrug and think this must be what Catholic is these days.

I know personally several devoted Catholics who live in that St. Matthew/Livonia parish who, although very busy, commute many many miles to other city parishes to get away from just that type of thing there.

Its a real shame.
 
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Eliza10:
And when parishoners for years are shamefully not taught the basics of their faith, you have a large majority of parishoners who shrug and think this must be what Catholic is these days.

Its a real shame.
Click to expand...
I was actually entertaining the thought of printing out information/instruction flyers to slip under the windshield wipers of the concert goers but then I wondered what good it would do. These people who are willing to pay $9 to get into church to hear religious and non-religious music are likely to mistake the flyers to be printed nose wipes.
 
within reason, i think sacred music could be performed as a concert in a church, much as it is appropriate for a religious speaker to use the nave as a place to speak. I woudl however say that the entire sanctuary (with the exception of the ambo i suppose) should be off limits to performers or speakers, and the concert or speech should be done in such a way that the people never forget that they are in a church.

for example a massive theactical show inside the sanctuary would likly be very inappropriate…
stjames-cathedral.org/Events/2005/gmgc2005.htm
 
we recently had a conceart and it was in the church. it was a free conceart though. but we did take up a collection for the hurricane victems. that’s the closest, I think we’ve come to raising money in church. but if the money was for the parish, it’s not really bad. although, I think it’s more tactful to take up a “love” offering after the conceart.
 
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SueKrum:
I think it’s more tactful to take up a “love” offering after the conceart.
Click to expand...
:yup:
I went to a Presbyterian benefit/entertainment concert like this. The basket was available for a free-will offering only at the end when concert goers exited the door.
 
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contemplative:
I was actually entertaining the thought of printing out information/instruction flyers to slip under the windshield wipers of the concert goers but then I wondered what good it would do. These people who are willing to pay $9 to get into church to hear religious and non-religious music are likely to mistake the flyers to be printed nose wipes.
Click to expand...
:rotfl:
 
in the winter we have tea and coffe at the back of the church, the money we save on heating the hall gives the parishoners a discounted day trip to pluscarden abbey and christmas party for the kids,
 
It isn’t just the Catholics who are using their buildings for a little profit with bingo, fall festivals, drawings, dinners, and special guests, such as the one in Livonia. The Protestants are doing it too. I visited one megachurch that has the equivalent of a Starbucks where you can buy gourmet coffee. (Visitors get a ticket for a fee cup of coffee, tea, or hot chocolate.) Another megachurch has a cafeteria that is open daily for lunch. Both have good sized bookstores where books and religious objects are sold.

The only thing the Catholics are doing here that I haven’t seen the protestants do - yet - is sell advertising for inclusion in the weekly bulletins. You can read the pastor’s letter on page 2, the listing of the scriptures for the week on page 3 and scan the advertisments for any number of lawyers, realtors, insurance agencies, undertakers, and landscaping companies on the last two pages.

I am put off by this rampant commercialism/consumerism. Do we really need to chow down at church? I know churches need money, but somehow the mouth watering smell of fried chicken wafting across our noses during Mass is incongruous. I guess I am just hopelessly backward, but the idea of a multi-purpose building being used for Mass in the morning and a beer bust in the afternoon is just unacceptable.
 
You are all mistaken. They are selling parishoners - $9 for adults, etc. :rotfl:
 
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