And if he will not hear the church,

[ufamtobie]

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Matthews 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 **And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **

The Above Bible Verses, now what Church was Jesus Christ talking to us about?

Was it the Protestant churches? No, they did not exist until the the 15th century, here is a clue, which Church is the Oldest Church recorded in history and the only Church that claims and the only Church that can claim through documentation of being the un broken line of the Successors of the Apostles. What Church is that?

Now let say that there was a broken line to this Church away from the Apostles/Jesus, then this Church that Jesus talked about to us above, then the gates of hell did prevail over His church. but as we know the Truth the gates of hell never will prevail over the this Church aka Catholic Church, and for those who believe it has, Shame on you, for not believing the Words of Jesus Christ regarding His One Church!

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Ufamtobie

 

[Metamorphoo]

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Matthews 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 **And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **

The Above Bible Verses, now what Church was Jesus Christ talking to us about?

Was it the Protestant churches? No, they did not exist until the the 15th century, here is a clue, which Church is the Oldest Church recorded in history and the only Church that claims and the only Church that can claim through documentation of being the un broken line of the Successors of the Apostles. What Church is that?

Now let say that there was a broken line to this Church away from the Apostles/Jesus, then this Church that Jesus talked about to us above, then the gates of hell did prevail over His church. but as we know the Truth the gates of hell never will prevail over the this Church aka Catholic Church, and for those who believe it has, Shame on you, for not believing the Words of Jesus Christ regarding His One Church!

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Ufamtobie

You are obviously wanting to pick a fight here … but the bottom line is that Catholics and Protestants have very different ideas as to what “Christ’s Church” is. I have not been on this forum as long as many other people; but I have been on it long enough to know that this point has been made very clear by both sides–repeatedly. As long as Catholics and Protestants are operating under totally different underlying assumptions as to what “the Church” is, you can talk til you’re blue in the face and it won’t convince a Protestant one iota.

Your view makes sense if you believe in the Catholic perspective on what “the Church” is. Your argument means nothing to someone who sees Christ Church as the body of believers who are joined by faith to Christ, regardless of the particular branch of Christendom to which he belongs.

Yes, we can agree that the gates of hell will not prevail over the Body of Christ; we can agree that there is only one Church. Where we differ is on the view that Roman Catholicism = Christ’s Church. To say that Catholics comprise part of Christ’s Church, (most) Protestants can agree; to say that it is the totality of Christ’s Church, Protestants will not.

 

[ufamtobie]

You are obviously wanting to pick a fight here … but the bottom line is that Catholics and Protestants have very different ideas as to what “Christ’s Church” is. I have not been on this forum as long as many other people; but I have been on it long enough to know that this point has been made very clear by both sides–repeatedly. As long as Catholics and Protestants are operating under totally different underlying assumptions as to what “the Church” is, you can talk til you’re blue in the face and it won’t convince a Protestant one iota.

Your view makes sense if you believe in the Catholic perspective on what “the Church” is. Your argument means nothing to someone who sees Christ Church as the body of believers who are joined by faith to Christ, regardless of the particular branch of Christendom to which he belongs.

Yes, we can agree that the gates of hell will not prevail over the Body of Christ; we can agree that there is only one Church. Where we differ is on the view that Roman Catholicism = Christ’s Church. To say that Catholics comprise part of Christ’s Church, (most) Protestants can agree; to say that it is the totality of Christ’s Church, Protestants will not.

Meta,

So, so wrong how can the TRUTH start a fight? The Truth is for you to listen and Learn and become Catholic. this is the reason why the Holy Spirit has you here at CAF, wether you believe it or not.

Ufamtobie

 

[tabbey48]

KEEP SAYING IT!!! SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!! It took many years for the message to get through to me; but I finally got the message. There are many churches (little “c”). There is only one Church (capital “C”). By the grace of God and because some Roman Catholics remained true to the proclamation of truth, I finally found THE CHURCH.

 

[ufamtobie]

KEEP SAYING IT!!! SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!! It took many years for the message to get through to me; but I finally got the message. There are many churches (little “c”). There is only one Church (capital “C”). By the grace of God and because some Roman Catholics remained true to the proclamation of truth, I finally found THE CHURCH.

Tabbey,

Praise Be Jesus Christ, and His Blessed Mother Mary for you Tabbey and those like yourself who make the Catholic Church Stronger if that can be.

Ufamtobie

 

[MelanieAnne]

I would not approach my Protestant friends in the same way (and perhaps that is because I was, once upon a time, Episcopalian) but I do believe in the Scripture that says (and forgive me if I do not get it perfectly here so I will simply paraphrase) that not everyone that calls Jesus “Lord” will be accepted but only those who do the will of His Father.

Actually, I worry about those that parse out, based on their own determination, who should be saved and who should not. I’ve always found that odd. Because God wants everyone to be saved. And if not “everyone” (because that may be impossible) then as many as possible. It is not logical that God would carve out groups who could never be saved, for whatever reason. We are His creatures and He wants us back. So I worry about those who have, according to their theology, consigned those who do not agree with them to Hell. I worry that THEY are the ones that will not be saved.

Of course there is no way for me to know, nor is there any way for any of us to know the state of any soul who has gone before. So this is purely a theoretical exercise.

 

[Nine_Two]

The Above Bible Verses, now what Church was Jesus Christ talking to us about?

Was it the Protestant churches? No, they did not exist until the the 15th century, here is a clue, which Church is the Oldest Church recorded in history and the only Church that claims and the only Church that can claim through documentation of being the un broken line of the Successors of the Apostles. What Church is that?

Clearly the Eastern Orthodox Church.

 

[workingman]

Clearly the Eastern Orthodox Church.

 

[BrianH]

QUOTE=ufamtobie;6736706]“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Matthews 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

How is this practiced in the Catholic Church? Is there a specific time that the congregation meets to hear disputes between members?

 

[Nine_Two]

How is this practiced in the Catholic Church? Is there a specific time that the congregation meets to hear disputes between members?

The parish and the Church are two different entities, at any rate I suspect relatively few disputes go that far.

 

[JonNC]

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Matthews 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 **And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
The Above Bible Verses, now what Church was Jesus Christ talking to us about?

Was it the Protestant churches? No, they did not exist until the the 15th century, here is a clue, which Church is the Oldest Church recorded in history and the only Church that claims and the only Church that can claim through documentation of being the un broken line of the Successors of the Apostles. What Church is that?

Now let say that there was a broken line to this Church away from the Apostles/Jesus, then this Church that Jesus talked about to us above, then the gates of hell did prevail over His church. but as we know the Truth the gates of hell never will prevail over the this Church aka Catholic Church, and for those who believe it has, Shame on you, for not believing the Words of Jesus Christ regarding His One Church!**
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not put into practice what I teach you”?

Ufamtobie

OK, my friend in Christ. How effective do you think this will be, particularly the bolded part, in creating an atmosphere of genuine dialogue to bring me or others “home”?

Jon

 

[ufamtobie]

[Q

UOTE=BrianH;6738946]

How is this practiced in the Catholic Church? Is there a specific time that the congregation meets to hear disputes between members?

Matthews 18:15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 1**7And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. **

Brian, there is no specific time, but notice how Jesus Christ want us to take it to the Church when a problem arises this is another reason why He Left His One Holy Catholic Church.

Ufamtobie

 

[ufamtobie]

OK, my friend in Christ. How effective do you think this will be, particularly the bolded part, in creating an atmosphere of genuine dialogue to bring me or others “home”?

Jon

Jon, I know, the Truth hurts, but it must be told and told very boldly

Ufamtobie

 

[JonNC]

Originally Posted by JonNC
OK, my friend in Christ. How effective do you think this will be, particularly the bolded part, in creating an atmosphere of genuine dialogue to bring me or others “home”?

Jon, I know, the Truth hurts, but it must be told and told very boldly

Ufamtobie

Ufamtobie,
Now I think I know you better. I think you sincerely want non-Catholics to be in communion with Rome. Correct? I find it hard to believe that you think Truth - Christ’s Truth - is designed to hurt!!! Nor do I believe that the Catholic Church intends for her message to be communicated in a way that hurts others. In fact, the CCC uses terms and phrases regarding n-C’s intended to convince and welcome, not hurt her brothers and sisters in Christ.
Do you agree?

Blessings,
Jon

 

[ufamtobie]

Ufamtobie,

Now I think I know you better. I think you sincerely want

Jon, YES with all my heart I want all protestants to come back home, home, home, it is where they belong no where else, but in the Catholic Church. The Truth can never Hurt only heal. Wether it be boldly said or nicely said, it Must be said!

However, I am not as bold as John the Baptist, was. lol Now what did Jon the Baptist say, “You brood of Vipers” etc…lol … I am not that Bold, but perhaps I should be For the Simple reason I want my brothers and sister home, again. We Our are brother keeper.

Ufamtobie

 

[JonNC]

Jon, YES with all my heart I want all protestants to come back home, home, home, it is where they belong no where else, but in the Catholic Church. The Truth can never Hurt only heal. Wether it be boldly said or nicely said, it Must be said!

However, I am not as bold as John the Baptist, was. lol Now what did Jon the Baptist say, “You brood of Vipers” etc…lol … I am not that Bold, but perhaps I should be For the Simple reason I want my brothers and sister home, again. We Our are brother keeper.

Ufamtobie

Do you consider me part of a “brood of vipers?”

Jon

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Jon, YES with all my heart I want all protestants to come back home, home, home, it is where they belong no where else, but in the Catholic Church. The Truth can never Hurt only heal. Wether it be boldly said or nicely said, it Must be said!

However, I am not as bold as John the Baptist, was. lol Now what did Jon the Baptist say, “You brood of Vipers” etc…lol … I am not that Bold, but perhaps I should be For the Simple reason I want my brothers and sister home, again. We Our are brother keeper.

Ufamtobie

I doubt that your method of “evangelization” will draw anyone “home” to the Catholic Church. More likely, they will be repulsed. Those who speak the truth should be able to do so in love. That is how people are to know we are Christians.

 

[Priscilla_Ann]

Do you consider me part of a “brood of vipers?”

Jon

And me also?

 

[ufamtobie]

Do you consider me part of a “brood of vipers?”

Jon

Jon, lol No, Jon I DO NOT! See, I bolded the “I do not”, see bold is good when telling the truth.

Ufamtobie

 

[ufamtobie]

I doubt that your method of “evangelization” will draw anyone “home” to the Catholic Church. More likely, they will be repulsed. Those who speak the truth should be able to do so in love. That is how people are to know we are Christians.

Priscilla, are you here to Change and become a Catholic? Yes, No, which is it?

Nothing I have said here is wrong nothing. Are you worried about the “Brood of Vipers” thingy! lol

Well, I did Not say it, John the Baptist did, not I, and go figure, by John the Baptist saying “you brood of Vipers” to them that came to him, many, many if not all were not REPULSED they came to believe and were baptized and saved.

So your pitch above about "your doubting that John the baptist Method of evangelization, not mine, proves you wrong Priscilla, many do believe and become saved with this method of evangelization.

Priscilla, are you saying that John the Baptist is not a Christian, again, he was the one that used the words you Brood of Vipers? Read Below:

Matthews 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Ufamtobie