...and Joseph Smith was a Prophet.

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What is the deal in the LDS church with Joseph Smith being so important? In my two plus years in the church I heard lots on Joseph Smith. Yes I heard lots about Jesus and Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost.

But if you hear them talk about the Book of Mormon they say, to paraphrase - the book show’s God love is real, Christ is the way back AND JOSEPH SMITH IS A PROPHET! Smith is connected to Christ like our heads are connected to our bodies. It’s really too much for anybody who has a free thinking mind.

Why is it so dang important than one must have a testimony of Joseph Smith? I’ve never heard Catholics or Protestants say they must have a testimony in prophets in the Bible accept Jesus. Must I have a testimony to Moses to get to Heaven? Must I have a testimony of Jesus and Paul to get to Heaven? But in the LDS church you can’t be a true “Saint” unless you believe in Joseph Smith too. Jesus and Smith are connected.

This from Preach My Gospel, the manual missionaries use when they are on their two year missions: lds.org/library/display/0,4945,8057-1-4424-1,00.html

WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE BOOK OF MORMON:

“The Book of Mormon is powerful evidence of the divinity of Christ. It is also proof of
the Restoration through the Prophet Joseph Smith.”
  • “. . . The only problem the objector has to resolve for
    himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if
    the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ,
    Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus
    Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led
    today by a prophet receiving revelation."*

    So for Jesus to be the Christ one must believe the Book of Mormon is true, and Smith was a prophet? So since I believe in Christ but don’t believe in Smith anymore or the Book of Mormon, then I don’t really believe in Christ?
“Make sure that everyone you teach clearly understands the following:”
  • “God is our literal Father in Heaven. He loves us. Every person on earth is a child of
    God and a member of God’s family. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is our Savior and
    Redeemer.”*
Sounds good!

“Our loving Father in Heaven reached out to His children throughout biblical history
by revealing His gospel to prophets. Sadly, many people rejected that gospel; even some
of those who accepted it changed gospel doctrines and ordinances and fell into unbelief
and apostasy.”

I guess so. But there is that “prophet” word getting you ready for the Joseph Smith part coming up! They have to make that all important connection.

“Our Father in Heaven sent His Beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to earth. He performed
miracles and taught His gospel. He accomplished the Atonement and was resurrected.”

Right. I agree. Sounds good and true.

*“Beginning with the First Vision, God has again reached out in love to His children. He
restored the gospel of Jesus Christ and His priesthood authority and organized His
Church on the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is
convincing evidence of this Restoration.” *

Arrrrgh!!! There it is again! Joseph Smith!

The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of
Jesus Christ is convincing evidence that Joseph
Smith was a prophet and that the gospel of Jesus
Christ has been restored. It is the keystone of our
religion, the most powerful resource for
teaching this message.

There we have it. Smith is a keystone of their religion. Christians can get to heaven without Moses, Paul, Peter, Mary, Martin Luther, and Billy Graham. But True Christian Saints? You have to acknowledge the “fact” that Smith was a prophet.

Is this really a Christian church? I’m not so sure anymore. At one time I thought it was but now I’m changing my mind. I know of no other Christian groups that have this near “prophet” worship that the LDS have. It’s a free country though. If they want to chain Christ and Smith together then they can. But it would be nice if they were honest about their real teachings.
 
TikiTokiguy said:
I know of no other Christian groups that have this near “prophet” worship that the LDS have.
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I suspect that “worship” is not a word LDS would use. “Veneration”, perhaps? Maybe J. Smith’s role in the LDS is similar to Mary’s role in the Catholic tradition. Mary is the Mother of God (theotokos), and the Mother of the Church. Without Mary, there is no Christ. Many Protestants, naturally, see this as Mary “worship”, but that, of course, is mistaken.
 
MormonHero said:
I suspect that “worship” is not a word LDS would use. “Veneration”, perhaps? Maybe J. Smith’s role in the LDS is similar to Mary’s role in the Catholic tradition. Mary is the Mother of God (theotokos), and the Mother of the Church. Without Mary, there is no Christ. Many Protestants, naturally, see this as Mary “worship”, but that, of course, is mistaken.
Click to expand...
This post is profoundly offensive to actual Christians. Mormons, we must all remember, are not Christians. That the Blessed Virgin Mary is somehow equivalent to a charlatan and liar like Joseph Smith is like claiming that the the Blessed Virgin Mary is a porn star and that Christ was the child of a prostitute.

No Catholic has ever “worshiped” the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
rpp said:
This post is profoundly offensive to actual Christians. Mormons, we must all remember, are not Christians. That the Blessed Virgin Mary is somehow equivalent to a charlatan and liar like Joseph Smith is like claiming that the the Blessed Virgin Mary is a porn star and that Christ was the child of a prostitute.

No catholics has ever “worshiped” the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Click to expand...
I was thinking how to articulate my profound revulsion at that post…no need, you nailed it. 👍
 
I guess they are saying they can’t have this “true” church without Joseph Smith.
 
The reason why they emphasize Joseph Smith is because they want you to believe the LDS church is the true church.

Look at it this way: Joseph Smith founded the Mormon Church, he found and translated the BoM, and as the prophet he restored the ancient church. So they place emphasis on Joseph being a prophet because if you believe him to be a prophet of God, then the LDS church must be right.

To illustrate, Peter was our first Pope. If you believe that Christ gave Peter the keys to the kingdom and made him the earthly head of the Church, then the Catholic Church must be right. I’m not comparing Peter to Joseph Smith, just showing you the line of reasoning Mormons have.

This is why they place so much emphasis on Joseph…or at least I think that is why.
 
Perhaps we should try and…not have this thread closed for breaking the rules? 🤷

I agree that Joseph Smith is everywhere in Mormonism, since he founded it. If Mormons don’t have a testimony of Joseph Smith, then there’s no point in believing the religion that he began (whether one accepts the LDS view of that origin or not). If Joseph Smith wasn’t a prophet, and wasn’t telling the truth, then the LDS faith collapses.

Mormons like to compare Joseph Smith to Abraham, Moses, etc., saying that he was a prophet just like them. I wonder if Judaism has as much reverence for them (as in, an outward expression of that reverence) as Mormons do, with hymns, books, paintings, statues, etc.
 
CatholicGuyNY said:
I agree that Joseph Smith is everywhere in Mormonism, since he founded it. If Mormons don’t have a testimony of Joseph Smith, then there’s no point in believing the religion that he began (whether one accepts the LDS view of that origin or not). If Joseph Smith wasn’t a prophet, and wasn’t telling the truth, then the LDS faith collapses.
Click to expand...
This is what I was trying to say.
 
TikiTokiguy said:
WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE BOOK OF MORMON:

“The Book of Mormon is powerful evidence of the divinity of Christ. It is also proof of
the Restoration through the Prophet Joseph Smith.”
  • “. . . The only problem the objector has to resolve for
    himself is whether the Book of Mormon is true. For if
    the Book of Mormon is true, then Jesus is the Christ,
    Joseph Smith was his prophet, The Church of Jesus
    Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it is being led
    today by a prophet receiving revelation."*

    So for Jesus to be the Christ one must believe the Book of Mormon is true, and Smith was a prophet? So since I believe in Christ but don’t believe in Smith anymore or the Book of Mormon, then I don’t really believe in Christ?
Click to expand...
This isn’t a correct understanding of the quoted paragraph. What it’s saying is that if the Book of Mormon is true, then the claims around it are also true, including Jesus being the Christ. The converse (if Jesus is the Christ, then the Book of Mormon is true) isn’t correct, and I don’t believe that the author of that paragraph would say or imply that.

What is interesting about the paragraph is that the Book of Mormon is true, then the LDS Church is true. What about all of the other churches descended from Joseph Smith, such as the CoC/RLDS, FLDS, Strangites, etc.? Why not them, since they also believe in the Book of Mormon?
 
TikiTokiguy said:
I guess they are saying they can’t have this “true” church without Joseph Smith.
Click to expand...
Exactly. No Joseph Smith, no LDS church. If Smith wasn’t telling the truth, then the LDS church couldn’t possibly be true.
 
CatholicGuyNY said:
What is interesting about the paragraph is that the Book of Mormon is true, then the LDS Church is true. What about all of the other churches descended from Joseph Smith, such as the CoC/RLDS, FLDS, Strangites, etc.? Why not them, since they also believe in the Book of Mormon?
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All the churches you named are called as part of the LDS movement. It’s like saying Byzantine Catholic and Roman Catholic, they split. After Joseph Smith’s martyrdom (I call it that because that is what LDS call it) there was no successor that Joseph Smith appointed or mentioned. So there was a group that believed that Joseph Smith III would be the prophet and become RLDS, then there are those who believe that Brigham Young would be the prophet and became known as Brighamites and are the LDS church as we know it. And the FLDS broke off when the church banned polygamy.

So I guess you could call them schisms and if the BoM is true and Joseph Smith is the prophet, all you need to do is decide who his successor was. I guess they would apply Moroni 10:4 to this too.
 
SalesianSDB said:
All the churches you named are called as part of the LDS movement. It’s like saying Byzantine Catholic and Roman Catholic, they split. After Joseph Smith’s martyrdom (I call it that because that is what LDS call it) there was no successor that Joseph Smith appointed or mentioned. So there was a group that believed that Joseph Smith III would be the prophet and become RLDS, then there are those who believe that Brigham Young would be the prophet and became known as Brighamites and are the LDS church as we know it. And the FLDS broke off when the church banned polygamy.

So I guess you could call them schisms and if the BoM is true and Joseph Smith is the prophet, all you need to do is decide who his successor was. I guess they would apply Moroni 10:4 to this too.
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I think you meant to say that it’s like the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, since they are in schism from each other (to be PC about it). Byzantine Catholics are in union with Roman Catholics, part of the same Church, as I’m sure you’re aware.

And I agree, one would have to decide who the successor was. LDS tend to imply that Moroni’s promise not only will let one know that the BoM is true, but that the LDS church is also true (the Intro to the BoM says as much).
 
MormonHero said:
I suspect that “worship” is not a word LDS would use. “Veneration”, perhaps? Maybe J. Smith’s role in the LDS is similar to Mary’s role in the Catholic tradition. Mary is the Mother of God (theotokos), and the Mother of the Church. Without Mary, there is no Christ. Many Protestants, naturally, see this as Mary “worship”, but that, of course, is mistaken.
Click to expand...
Let’s compare how JS role in the LDS is similar to Mary’s role in the Catholic faith (and actually Protestants would agree with this definition as well)

Mary is the Mother of God and the Mother of the Church. Without Mary, there is no Christ.

Joseph Smith is the prophet of God and the Founder of the Church. Without Joseph Smith, there is no _________. (what would go here?)

Mary brings Our Saviour into the world so that He can save us from our sins and lead us to everlasting life.

Joseph Smith brings_________into the world so that ______________.

There is no comparison whatsoever.
 
TikiTokiguy,

I would say that the reasons Joseph Smith is emphasized are the following points:
  1. For a person to be able to become sanctified by the Holy Spirit, they need to be able to trust in Christ even as they go through all the adversities that are going to be stress points in their life. It is like a refiner’s fire. An LDS member becomes familiar with ongoing personal revelation if they really come to understand the Book of Mormon and apply the teachings and examples there, so if one doesn’t “believe” Joseph Smith was a prophet then they won’t “believe” the Book of Mormon is true, and thus they diminish their opportunity to be fully familiar with the “whisperings of the Spirit”. (That would not apply to non-LDS, because they become satisfied with the sufficiency of the truths in the Bible.)
  2. An active LDS at some point would be inclined to enter the temple and do temple ordinances, including for their ancestors because of the love they feel for them. A person would have a hard time trusting in the validity of temple ordinances if they didn’t feel that Joseph Smith was guided prophetically and was visited by Elijah, Moses, Peter, James and John, and the Savior to restore keys and knowledge about temple ordinances and the sealing power and the priesthood. To enter the temple is not to have “guaranteed” spiritual experiences–the preparation by each person is key to what kind of experience they will have there.
Wishing you all the best.
 
(Edited) the BOA is a proven hoax. pretty much all of his prophesies didn’t come true and the native americans are genetically asians and not jews. (Edited)

btw, what does the word mormon mean anyways? (Edited)

yeah, i found some tablets in my back yard too. it said i can sleep with all the women i want. i can’t show them to you because an angle took them away.
 
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