And Quit Holding Hands...

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San_Patricio

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… during the “Our Father” at Mass. It’s not found anywhere in Catholic Tradition prior to the 60’s and it’s annoying and stupid.

Okay, I’m done. Just had to get that out…
 
San_Patricio said:
… during the “Our Father” at Mass. It’s not found anywhere in Catholic Tradition prior to the 60’s and it’s annoying and stupid.

Okay, I’m done. Just had to get that out…
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There are already dozens and dozens of threads on this topic. I don’t think we need another!
 
thistle said:
There are already dozens and dozens of threads on this topic. I don’t think we need another!
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Boy, you’re on a roll tonight, aren’t you? :rolleyes:

Please go find something else to do, besides insulting others’ topics. Honestly. Get a hobby. Get into gardening, or something.
 
Here are eight reasons why I should.

But I like to be distracted from praying by worrying about the sweaty palms of the guy next to me. At least then I don’t have to think about me unworthily receiving communion.

The Evangelical Church does it, why can’t we?

If there is a cute person next to me then, hey I get to hold their hand, heck I might pull them close to hug them when we give the sign of peace!

It takes too much faith to believe in the Eucharist, it is much easier to concentrate on the presence of Christ in each other.

I can see how far we can accordian around pews and across them, kinda like hands across America!

Who cares if Catholics never did it before, this is part of bringing the culture in, while we are at it lets celebrate Kwanzaa!

If the priest says it’s ok then it must be ok, heck I saw a priest in a Barney suit, that must be ok too! Or at least I will bring my incense bowl to dance around the altar, after I hold hands.

Last but not least,
I like to do it, since it feels good and I prefer doing it, then it must be good. You are so old fashioned if you disagree with me. Get with the times, ya buncha uptight “traditional” Catholics, wanting to be all faithful and respectful to God. Can’t you see we are the Body of Christ. Sheesh.

Scylla
 
scylla said:
Here are eight reasons why I should.

But I like to be distracted from praying by worrying about the sweaty palms of the guy next to me. At least then I don’t have to think about me unworthily receiving communion.

The Evangelical Church does it, why can’t we?

If there is a cute person next to me then, hey I get to hold their hand, heck I might pull them close to hug them when we give the sign of peace!

It takes too much faith to believe in the Eucharist, it is much easier to concentrate on the presence of Christ in each other.

I can see how far we can accordian around pews and across them, kinda like hands across America!

Who cares if Catholics never did it before, this is part of bringing the culture in, while we are at it lets celebrate Kwanzaa!

If the priest says it’s ok then it must be ok, heck I saw a priest in a Barney suit, that must be ok too! Or at least I will bring my incense bowl to dance around the altar, after I hold hands.

Last but not least,
I like to do it, since it feels good and I prefer doing it, then it must be good. You are so old fashioned if you disagree with me. Get with the times, ya buncha uptight “traditional” Catholics, wanting to be all faithful and respectful to God. Can’t you see we are the Body of Christ. Sheesh.

Scylla
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I admire you so much!
 
Giovanna said:
Boy, you’re on a roll tonight, aren’t you? :rolleyes:

Please go find something else to do, besides insulting others’ topics. Honestly. Get a hobby. Get into gardening, or something.
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Why don’t you stop being so stupid and offensive.
The OP and I are privately corresponding and getting on well.
I think you should grow up!
 
San_Patricio said:
… during the “Our Father” at Mass. It’s not found anywhere in Catholic Tradition prior to the 60’s and it’s annoying and stupid.
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Many people disapprove of this practice, saying that it isn’t found anywhere in the GIRM. Well, I have read the GIRM, and the act of holding hands is indeed not in the General Instructions. But, neither is any other hand posture. When I was young (and we’re only talking 15 years ago!), the proper hand posture for prayer was hands in front of you, palms together, fingers extended, fingers together (hope that’s specific enough). In more recent years, (like the past 10 or so), the “proper” hand posture for prayer has been hands in front of you, folded together. I see no reason why the hand posture for the Our Father shouldn’t change, if it fosters some sort of pastoral objective (although i am open to changing my mind as well).
 
Spirithound said:
Many people disapprove of this practice, saying that it isn’t found anywhere in the GIRM. Well, I have read the GIRM, and the act of holding hands is indeed not in the General Instructions. But, neither is any other hand posture. .
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There are many hand postures in the GIRM. “Hands extended” is just one, BUT never for the laity.

The GIRM tells you what you CAN do, not what you cannot.

SO if you never find a directive to hold hands, don’t.
If you never see the “Hands Extended” (orans) for the laity, don’t do it.
 
From the GIRM:
Movements and Posture
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  1. The gestures and posture of the priest, the deacon, and the ministers, as well as those of the people, ought to contribute to making the entire celebration resplendent with beauty and noble simplicity, so that the true and full meaning of the different parts of the celebration is evident and that the participation of all is fostered. Therefore, attention should be paid to what is determined by this General Instruction and the traditional practice of the Roman Rite and to what serves the common spiritual good of the People of God, rather than private inclination or arbitrary choice.
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A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.
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Aside from the fact that it is not called for in the rubrics, there are many reasons why people object to holding hands during the Our Father. For many people, hand-holding is a very personal action shared with those who are very close–spouses, lovers, parents and children. To be forced to either participate or else appear hopelessly churlish is unfair and embarrassing to them. A person who does not wish to hold hands in a congregation of people who have come to fully expect everyone to hold hands, is forced to take a perceptively negative action, i.e. actively declining to hold hands. This marks that person out as an unfriendly boor when, ironically, all they are doing is declining to participate in an act that is not even required!

What about the objection “At Mass we are all supposed to be one big family anyway; we should be able to show the love we are supposed to feel.” Well, that is the express purpose of “the kiss of peace” before Holy Communion. In some cultures, a fraternal gesture is literally a kiss. In the Orient, it is a polite bow. In our culture, it is a friendly shaking of hands. To go from a more intimate expression of love (holding hands) to a less intimate (a handshake) does not make any sense. If someone wants to hold hands with their spouse or kids during the Our Father, more power to them. When the entire congregation automatically goes into the stretch-across-the-pews mode at the invitation to pray, it becomes intrusive and presumptive.

Frankly, I am astounded that people go to so much trouble to defend any un-mandated action that, effectively, forces other people, willing or not, to participate. If someone wants to individually whirl like a dervish or bounce on one foot, or pick their I-don’t-know-what and it makes them feel holier to do so during Mass, then go for it. But for goodness sakes, just because it makes you feel good, don’t insist on promoting an un-mandated practice that makes others feel like boors if they don’t feel the same way about it and decline to play along.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
There are many hand postures in the GIRM. “Hands extended” is just one, BUT never for the laity.

The GIRM tells you what you CAN do, not what you cannot.

SO if you never find a directive to hold hands, don’t.
If you never see the “Hands Extended” (orans) for the laity, don’t do it.
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My point was that there isn’t any directives in the Lord’s Prayer section on hand posture, so if you want to say that if the GIRM doesn’t say to hold hands, then we can’t, then you must also say that since the GIRM doesn’t say to clasp your hands in front of you, you can’t, which, reduced ad absurdum, means that we’re not allowed to even have hands at that point in the Mass.
So, that being said, I appreciate a recent poster’s feelings that someone should not be forced to hold hands, and depending on whether I’m in church with my Life Teen group, or with my parents, I will, and will not, respectively.
 
Spirithound said:
My point was that there isn’t any directives in the Lord’s Prayer section on hand posture, so if you want to say that if the GIRM doesn’t say to hold hands, then we can’t, then you must also say that since the GIRM doesn’t say to clasp your hands in front of you, you can’t, which, reduced ad absurdum, means that we’re not allowed to even have hands at that point in the Mass.
So, that being said, I appreciate a recent poster’s feelings that someone should not be forced to hold hands, and depending on whether I’m in church with my Life Teen group, or with my parents, I will, and will not, respectively.
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No, if you are NEVER told in any Vatican document to hold hands with another person, you are not allowed to.

Can you show me a vatican document that states that we can?
You are told to bow for the creed, you are told to strike your breast. A traditional prayer posture is to fold your hands. Even the CCC directs that.

Where are we ever told to hold hands?
 
Spirithound said:
Many people disapprove of this practice, saying that it isn’t found anywhere in the GIRM. I see no reason why the hand posture for the Our Father shouldn’t change, if it fosters some sort of pastoral objective (although i am open to changing my mind as well).
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It doesn’t foster any pastoral objective.
It’s stupid and annoying and it’s a distraction from the Mass and from our Father who we’re supposed to be focused on at that time and it’s nothing to do with Catholicism. Need more?

If they want to foster fellowship w/in the parish then we should have more parish gatherings. The same people who insist on trying to hold my hand are trying to run everybody down getting out of the parking lot after Mass.

I usually try to find a spot away from everyone in the pews, and if I can’t I stand & kneel in the back. But that doesn’t make it okay or right and I don’t want to isolate myself from my fellow Catholics.

I just want to take part in the Mass the way the Mass is intended to be!

I don’t know the document, but I believe the Vatican has issued a letter stating thet the practice is inappropriate, not that many will listen here. 😦

By the way, is there anything in the GIRM that says I can’t park my pickup in the confessional?
 
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