And Tango Makes Three

[Whitacre_Girl]

Okay, I think I am calm enough now to post. I have had a very rough morning, and after a nap and QT with the hubby, I think I can engage in civil discussion.

Anyway, I am in a children’s literature class. I am currently working towards getting my reading endorsement. Today, a student did a presentation about different books that promote homosexual family structure. This book: “And Tangle Makes Three” was one that was listed (the real kicker here is he brought his materials into class with a bag printed on both sides with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. This was what made me really angry…) and he is putting it out there as a book that should be in all classrooms and taught in schools.

Here is a youtube link to the book being read aloud:

youtube.com/watch?v=WyPjUa908hM

I personally will NEVER read this book to my students. I can see how knowing about it would be important to recommend to a student who was adopted by homosexual parents and is being ridiculed for being “different.” But I don’t get, and will not EVER participate in the teaching that homosexuality is okay. It flies in the face of MOST religious students and their beliefs. It appears multiculturalism is ONLY for select minorities. sigh

Anyway, your thoughts? And please, don’t hijack the thread by bashing public schools - make your own thread for that

 

[Allegra]

Some people have opened their minds so far, their brains have fallen out! I was once in a similar class where the professor offered a book as a good choice to make black children feel comfortable in the classroom. It was about a child going to visit her father in jail! There was so much yelling in that classroom that night it wasn’t even funny! In defense of little Tango, there is no actual mention of homosexuality in the story. It’s actually based on a true story about a baby penguin who was cared for by two male penguins in the zoo. Frankly, in my opinion, both books belong on the shelf in the counselor’s office, to be used for students who are dealing with that kind of situation. As much as I hate seeing this sort of thing done to kids, as a teacher I’m going to be faced with children who live in that world and I have to teach them the best I can.

 

[Tomcmaj]

Regardless of whether or not being gay is “okay”, the fact is that gay people and their children are part of our communities.

I agree with you that these books will be useful to children from gay families, but they’re even more important for children from straight families because they help combat bullying.

Of course, it’s up to you to choose which ones you think are most appropriate.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Some people have opened their minds so far, their brains have fallen out! I was once in a similar class where the professor offered a book as a good choice to make black children feel comfortable in the classroom. It was about a child going to visit her father in jail! There was so much yelling in that classroom that night it wasn’t even funny! In defense of little Tango, there is no actual mention of homosexuality in the story. It’s actually based on a true story about a baby penguin who was cared for by two male penguins in the zoo. Frankly, in my opinion, both books belong on the shelf in the counselor’s office, to be used for students who are dealing with that kind of situation. As much as I hate seeing this sort of thing done to kids, as a teacher I’m going to be faced with children who live in that world and I have to teach them the best I can.

You nailed exactly how I feel. Where I get upset is that my school (and this student) says that these books need to be part of a curriculum where all students are taught that homosexuality is okay. I don’t agree with that, but this is a good I would recommend to a student being ridiculed about having two moms or two dads.

 

[Allegra]

You nailed exactly how I feel. Where I get upset is that my school (and this student) says that these books need to be part of a curriculum where all students are taught that homosexuality is okay. I don’t agree with that, but this is a good I would recommend to a student being ridiculed about having two moms or two dads.

It is not the job of the school to teach that agenda. I would ask for clarification from your boss and your district as to what is expected of you. If you have a student who is living with homosexual parents, I would seek help from the counselor and definately have a meeting with the child’s parents before school starts so that you can clarify their expectations and yours. The important thing is to be the best teacher as possible to that child as well as the other children in your class.

 

[Tomcmaj]

If you have a student who is living with homosexual parents, I would seek help from the counselor and definately have a meeting with the child’s parents before school starts so that you can clarify their expectations and yours.

The issue isn’t the kid with gay parents.

The issue is ensuring other kids treat that kid with the same respect they treat other kids.

 

[Allegra]

The issue isn’t the kid with gay parents.

The issue is ensuring other kids treat that kid with the same respect they treat other kids.

Are you a teacher? If you are, then you know that a teacher needs to be on the same page as their student’s parents. Even a minor misunderstanding as far as the expectations go can lead to huge problems, especially in emotionally charged situations.

All teachers should do their best to foster mutual respect amonst the students in their classroom at all times. That goes without saying for most educators. Unfortunatly, this type of situation can be very difficult to deal with because some gay parents and supporters of the gay agenda will be very adament that anything less than a full scale indoctrination of the entire class in their ideology is intolerable. Meanwhile, there are some parents that would freak out about Tango being read to the class. This is a delicate balanace and the teacher and school needs to have a plan for how they intend to address the issues that are likely to come up.

 

[Tomcmaj]

Are you a teacher? If you are, then you know that a teacher needs to be on the same page as their student’s parents. Even a minor misunderstanding as far as the expectations go can lead to huge problems, especially in emotionally charged situations.

I started up a Waldorf School, so I’m very familiar with these issues.

All teachers should do their best to foster mutual respect amonst the students in their classroom at all times. That goes without saying for most educators.

That’s true!

Unfortunatly, this type of situation can be very difficult to deal with because some gay parents and supporters of the gay agenda will be very adament that anything less than a full scale indoctrination of the entire class in their ideology is intolerable.

I’m unfamiliar with the gay agenda or gay ideology. As far as indoctrination goes, my only experience in speaking with gay people and gay parents is that they would like to be treated like everyone else is treated. However, I can imagine that a small number of these folks might demand to be treated as “special”. I had to deal with something similar: the issue was special privileges for black families, not gay families - long story.

Meanwhile, there are some parents that would freak out about Tango being read to the class. This is a delicate balanace and the teacher and school needs to have a plan for how they intend to address the issues that are likely to come up.

I agree. But a school and its faculty should be advocates for equality. These parents may be gay, but they’re also sinners, just like the rest of us.

 

[Allegra]

I agree. But a school and its faculty should be advocates for equality. These parents may be gay, but they’re also sinners, just like the rest of us.

I don’t understand your point. All the students have the right to an appropriate education. There isn’t a clear line drawn here as to what constitutes equality. Unless you have a policy that you would like to elaborate on.

 

[Santi2]

Okay, I think I am calm enough now to post. I have had a very rough morning, and after a nap and QT with the hubby, I think I can engage in civil discussion.

Anyway, I am in a children’s literature class. I am currently working towards getting my reading endorsement. Today, a student did a presentation about different books that promote homosexual family structure. This book: “And Tangle Makes Three” was one that was listed (the real kicker here is he brought his materials into class with a bag printed on both sides with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. This was what made me really angry…) and he is putting it out there as a book that should be in all classrooms and taught in schools.

Here is a youtube link to the book being read aloud:

youtube.com/watch?v=WyPjUa908hM

I personally will NEVER read this book to my students. I can see how knowing about it would be important to recommend to a student who was adopted by homosexual parents and is being ridiculed for being “different.” But I don’t get, and will not EVER participate in the teaching that homosexuality is okay. It flies in the face of MOST religious students and their beliefs. It appears multiculturalism is ONLY for select minorities. sigh

Anyway, your thoughts? And please, don’t hijack the thread by bashing public schools - make your own thread for that

Do the parents know that these materials are present in schools and have the parents protested over these?

We had a case in East London three years ago when a Muslim parent withdrew his sons from the primary school (not a faith school) they attended on the day (gay history month) the books were being promoted. A few other families had made the same decision and the local council threatened action against them for encouraging “truancy”, overlooking the fact that parents have the right to remove their children from certain lessons.

It the past, we had legislation under Sec 28 Local Govenrment Act 1988 which stated:

28 Prohibition on promoting homosexuality by teaching or by publishing material…The following section shall be inserted after section 2 of the M1Local Government Act 1986 (prohibition of political publicity)—.

2A“ Prohibition on promoting homosexuality by teaching or by publishing material…(1)A local authority shall not—.

(a)intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality;.

(b)promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.

The LGBT successfully lobbied for the repeal of the above. Now, other than books like “And Tango Makes Three” “King and King” and all of that ilk, we also have school plays like “Romeo and Julian” in secondary schools.

 

[Tomcmaj]

I don’t understand your point. All the students have the right to an appropriate education. There isn’t a clear line drawn here as to what constitutes equality. Unless you have a policy that you would like to elaborate on.

An appropriate education should recognize the diversity that makes up our culture.

So we have Black History month. We celebrate Cinco de Mayo. Some schools celebrate Chinese New Year. Should there be a gay people of history day? Why not? Some pretty famous and influential people were gay - a list that in all likelhood includes one of our past presidents.

I wish I had a dollar for every Mormon I’ve met who has told me that Elton John has been a big influence in their lives!

 

[Allegra]

An appropriate education should recognize the diversity that makes up our culture.

So we have Black History month. We celebrate Cinco de Mayo. Some schools celebrate Chinese New Year. Should there be a gay people of history day? Why not? Some pretty famous and influential people were gay - a list that in all likelhood includes one of our past presidents.

I wish I had a dollar for every Mormon I’ve met who has told me that Elton John has been a big influence in their lives!

Homosexuality isn’t a diversification of our culture. It’s a sexual lifestyle. Elton John may have influenced many people, but he did it on his own merit as a composer and performer, not because he was gay. I have no problem teaching my students about “The Lion King”, but who the composer has sex with is not really on the test. No, there should not be a “gay history” day anymore then there should be a special day for people who like to do it “doggie style”. I find the idea appalling! I certainly have no intention of scandelizing a past president by claiming that he was gay when he never claimed to be so.

 

[Tomcmaj]

Homosexuality isn’t a diversification of our culture. It’s a sexual lifestyle.

If by lifestyle you mean “choice”, I’ve never met a gay person who “chose” to be gay.

Elton John may have influenced many people, but he did it on his own merit as a composer and performer, not because he was gay. I have no problem teaching my students about “The Lion King”, but who the composer has sex with is not really on the test

And MIles Davis became a great musician on his own merit not because he was black. And yet here we are with Black History Month! Why? Because Blacks had to struggle mightily for equality, just as gays are doing today.

No, there should not be a “gay history” day anymore then there should be a special day for people who like to do it “doggie style”.

My understanding is that “doggie style” is a choice. Being gay is not.

I certainly have no intention of scandelizing a past president by claiming that he was gay when he never claimed to be so.

In the 19th century America, most gays refrained from publicly claiming their gayness.

BTW, here’s a picture of my doggie, MIlo, a 3 1/2 year old royal poodle.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/phot...728837680/n728837680_2156810_7478366.jpg?dl=1

 

[Allegra]

If by lifestyle you mean “choice”, I’ve never met a gay person who “chose” to be gay.

And MIles Davis became a great musician on his own merit not because he was black. And yet here we are with Black History Month! Why? Because Blacks had to struggle mightily for equality, just as gays are doing today.



My understanding is that “doggie style” is a choice. Being gay is not.

In the 19th century America, most gays refrained from publicly claiming their gayness.

Having homosexual relations isn’t a choice? There is a difference between SSA and living as an active homosexual.

At any rate, the homosexual advocacy groups are not pushing for equality. They have equality. They can sit on the same bus, work the same job, buy the same house, vote in the same elections, as anyone else. What they are fighting for is social and legal acceptance of their lifestyle. They are trying to force their belief that what they are doing is okay down the throat of everyone else. The problem is, we live in a country where people are allowed to have their own beliefs, and many people don’t want to send their children to a tax-funded school in order to be indoctrinated with beliefs they don’t agree with. Therefore, it is the school’s job to remain neutral, which can be very difficult to do. That’s why it is important for the parents, teachers, and administration to have a common plan for educating the children of gay people appropriately, without stepping on the rights of the other students.

PS- Your doggie is very cute. Mine is a pug.

 

[karow]

Okay, I think I am calm enough now to post. I have had a very rough morning, and after a nap and QT with the hubby, I think I can engage in civil discussion.

Anyway, I am in a children’s literature class. I am currently working towards getting my reading endorsement. Today, a student did a presentation about different books that promote homosexual family structure. This book: “And Tangle Makes Three” was one that was listed (the real kicker here is he brought his materials into class with a bag printed on both sides with the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. This was what made me really angry…) and he is putting it out there as a book that should be in all classrooms and taught in schools.

Here is a youtube link to the book being read aloud:

youtube.com/watch?v=WyPjUa908hM

I personally will NEVER read this book to my students. I can see how knowing about it would be important to recommend to a student who was adopted by homosexual parents and is being ridiculed for being “different.” But I don’t get, and will not EVER participate in the teaching that homosexuality is okay. It flies in the face of MOST religious students and their beliefs. It appears multiculturalism is ONLY for select minorities. sigh

Anyway, your thoughts? And please, don’t hijack the thread by bashing public schools - make your own thread for that

If this picture book has you incensed, you’d best meet with your academic advisor or teaching supervisor now, make your views clear, and ask for a frank assessment
as to if you should be thinking about a career in public schools. Because if this has you irate, you’re going to encounter family situations and district policy that will curl your toes: lesbian moms who volunteer in your classroom; two dads showing up for Back to School Night; polyamorous families; and blended families of every configuration possible. Add to this the mandated annual lesson plans about gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transgendered people. Refuse to teach it? Fine, there’s the door. Your district has got 250 qualified applicants waiting for your job.

Teaching starts with love, not acceptance, love. To be a teacher, you’re going to have to love these kids and their parents not because a religious institution told you to but because it bubbles up from something intrinsic in your core. And they - all of them plus your administrators - will be able to tell in a nanosecond that you don’t approve of how they live their lives. And do you know who’s going to be able to tell that you have reservations about their families? Those kids. And they will carry that knowledge about you around in their little selves for a long time. What a tragedy.

 

[Allegra]

If this picture book has you incensed, you’d best meet with your academic advisor or teaching supervisor now, make your views clear, and ask for a frank assessment
as to if you should be thinking about a career in public schools. Because if this has you irate, you’re going to encounter family situations and district policy that will curl your toes: lesbian moms who volunteer in your classroom; two dads showing up for Back to School Night; polyamorous families; and blended families of every configuration possible. Add to this the mandated annual lesson plans about gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transgendered people. Refuse to teach it? Fine, there’s the door. Your district has got 250 qualified applicants waiting for your job.

Teaching starts with love, not acceptance, love. To be a teacher, you’re going to have to love these kids and their parents not because a religious institution told you to but because it bubbles up from something intrinsic in your core. And they - all of them plus your administrators - will be able to tell in a nanosecond that you don’t approve of how they live their lives. And do you know who’s going to be able to tell that you have reservations about their families? Those kids. And they will carry that knowledge about you around in their little selves for a long time. What a tragedy.

Karow, you have some good ideas, but I don’t think you know the half of it. As a teacher, I have seen absolutly horrific things that my students have to live with. Yes, you have to love them, but loving them doesn’t mean you need to approve of how their parents treat them or how they live their lives. I’ve been teaching for five years now and already I could fill this thread with dozens and dozens of horror stories.
At any rate, it is unrealistic for teachers to expect to be made to teach lessons in homosexuality, particularly elementary age students. That’s just not where we are right now. It might be someday, but this is not regular procedure in most school districts or most states.
I understand that the OP is already a teacher and is taking this class to get a Reading Specialist certificate. It sounds to me like she is very aware of what her students needs are. I think you are more than a little out of line to suggest that she is not a fit teacher.

 

[karow]

Karow, you have some good ideas, but I don’t think you know the half of it. As a teacher, I have seen absolutly horrific things that my students have to live with. Yes, you have to love them, but loving them doesn’t mean you need to approve of how their parents treat them or how they live their lives. I’ve been teaching for five years now and already I could fill this thread with dozens and dozens of horror stories.
At any rate, it is unrealistic for teachers to expect to be made to teach lessons in homosexuality, particularly elementary age students. That’s just not where we are right now. It might be someday, but this is not regular procedure in most school districts or most states.
I understand that the OP is already a teacher and is taking this class to get a Reading Specialist certificate. It sounds to me like she is very aware of what her students needs are. I think you are more than a little out of line to suggest that she is not a fit teacher.

I’ve been teaching since 1986; I know more than 1/2 of it.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve been teaching since 1986; I know more than 1/2 of it.

Then I apologize, though I still say your assessment of the OP’s teaching ability is rather premature, given the fact that you know very little about her. She was very clear that she is willing and prepared to meet the special needs of the children of gays in her classroom. Your outburst suggests to me that you consider her unfit for teaching simply because she doesn’t agree with your political views. I certainly hope that isn’t the case.

 

[Allegra]

I’ve been teaching since 1986; I know more than 1/2 of it.

As a matter of interest, what state do you work in that has it as required or even common practice to teach lessons in homosexual lifestyles to elementary children?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

If this picture book has you incensed, you’d best meet with your academic advisor or teaching supervisor now, make your views clear, and ask for a frank assessment
as to if you should be thinking about a career in public schools. Because if this has you irate, you’re going to encounter family situations and district policy that will curl your toes: lesbian moms who volunteer in your classroom; two dads showing up for Back to School Night; polyamorous families; and blended families of every configuration possible. Add to this the mandated annual lesson plans about gays, lesbians, bi-sexuals, and transgendered people. Refuse to teach it? Fine, there’s the door. Your district has got 250 qualified applicants waiting for your job.

Teaching starts with love, not acceptance, love. To be a teacher, you’re going to have to love these kids and their parents not because a religious institution told you to but because it bubbles up from something intrinsic in your core. And they - all of them plus your administrators - will be able to tell in a nanosecond that you don’t approve of how they live their lives. And do you know who’s going to be able to tell that you have reservations about their families? Those kids. And they will carry that knowledge about you around in their little selves for a long time. What a tragedy.

I am sorry you got the idea that kids adopted by homosexual parents have me on edge. Although I admit - your post jumped to a lot of conclusions about me without knowing me and it was kind of rude and extremely judgmental.

For the record - I am upset about policy. I think I mentioned in my post that this story was brought up as a method to teach kids in the classroom about homosexuality and how it is wrong to think that homosexuality is wrong. THAT is what has me upset. I think I also made other posts about how I want to love and support these kids like any other kid in my class, but how I will not ever be part of a system that demands that we teach all kids things that fly in the face of their and their family’s religious views.

This book was brought up and taught ENTIRELY in the context of demanding that we teach all students that homosexuality is to be encouraged in those people who have those tendencies.

I do not now nor will I ever look down on a child for his or her parent’s choices. Nor will I treat their parents any different. I WILL NOT however, deprive students of their right to believe what they will in religion and morality. I’d also like to add that my state does not mandate it, but my school where I am studying is heavily encouraging it to the point of almost disguising it as state standards. I have gone through the state standards closely, and no where in there does it demand that I have to teach that gay is okay.

So please, if making judgments about me, make sure they’re better founded than what you glean from a couple paragraphs on a forum!