And the Gates of Hell will not Prevail Against it

[maryj]

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.Quote:

I always get the general opinion that Catholics look down their nose at protestants. But why do you dispise us so much? Don’t we believe in salvation through Jesus’ blood just like you? What was the early church based around? Jesus’ message, the good news! We believe that. So how come you place us with the cults?

O.K Now I know this could start a whole other thread, but where did you get that GENERAL opinion from. Certainly not at a Catholic Church. I have been Catholic for 43 years and in all of the churches in all of the different places I have been I can honestly tell you I have never, ever, ever heard a Protestant church berated. Despise? who told you this? I’m fairly certain I can figure that answer out myself, I’ll bet you can too!!! The Catholic church teaches nothing BUT tolerance, but time and again I hear Protestants make comments about the Catholic church. Now granted I have not been in a Lutheran, baptist,methodist,"non-demoninational open door, church in a very long time, but I know people, some of them very close friends, who go to these churches. I’ve been told what they have been taught in their Bible Studies and retreats. Go to a Catholic Bible study, or Catholic retreat and see if ANY time is spent on berating other religious denominations. Gates of Hell…sorry for this loose interpretation…but I wonder where they are. I guess my point is this, Let’s be very careful making statements like that without first doing some honest internal searching and figuring out just exactly "where those “feelings” are being taught.

]

 

[CollegeCatholic]

maryj:

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.Quote:

I always get the general opinion that Catholics look down their nose at protestants. But why do you dispise us so much? Don’t we believe in salvation through Jesus’ blood just like you? What was the early church based around? Jesus’ message, the good news! We believe that. So how come you place us with the cults?

O.K Now I know this could start a whole other thread, but where did you get that GENERAL opinion from. Certainly not at a Catholic Church. I have been Catholic for 43 years and in all of the churches in all of the different places I have been I can honestly tell you I have never, ever, ever heard a Protestant church berated. Despise? who told you this? I’m fairly certain I can figure that answer out myself, I’ll bet you can too!!! The Catholic church teaches nothing BUT tolerance, but time and again I hear Protestants make comments about the Catholic church. Now granted I have not been in a Lutheran, baptist,methodist,"non-demoninational open door, church in a very long time, but I know people, some of them very close friends, who go to these churches. I’ve been told what they have been taught in their Bible Studies and retreats. Go to a Catholic Bible study, or Catholic retreat and see if ANY time is spent on berating other religious denominations. Gates of Hell…sorry for this loose interpretation…but I wonder where they are. I guess my point is this, Let’s be very careful making statements like that without first doing some honest internal searching and figuring out just exactly "where those “feelings” are being taught.

]

While “tolerance” has certainly seemed to be on the uprise, there are certainly many examples of intolerance. In Catholic Churches, I have heard nothing but “Protestant Brothers and Sisters” and “Seperated Brethren” and things of that nature. My girlfriend went to a Church of Christ church and the highlight of the sermon was “… and that is why the Catholic Church is the apostate church!” I have actually attended many churches in my days as I am a “revert” to the Church and I would say it was about 50/50 between churches that didn’t have nice stuff to say and churches that either did or didn’t really feel the need to talk about it very much.

 

[Ignatius]

Cath.orProtes.?:

I am sure this will be heavily attacked. But who said “how” God was going to keep his church from succumbing to the gates of hell? Perhaps in ensuring the gates of Hell not prevail against his “church”, he sanctioned the Reformation.

I see no where in the Bible that says “how” he will do it or “when” he would do it…it could have been years after heretical views infiltrated the “church”.

Thought just occurred to me.

If the Church was wrong until the sixteenth century, then the “gates of hell” did prevail against it.

 

[Jake99]

And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Its a physical and mental war between the Messiah and the ways of this world and the Messiah is the perfect man with God within him. He will be great at everything with the best support possible, facts, genetics and witnesses. Bet that he will win start to finish at everything and all will reject him, call him crazy and try to kill him. A bold and outspoken reformer is what he will be, and his objective is to make all live as one.

Expect a mysterious demonstration of miraculous abilities and the same wisdom and operating systems that Jesus endorsed. You will eat his flesh and drink his blood and not even know you have untill he reveals who he is and what he did.

Singinbeauty, I must hear more from you. bravo in #26. Walking in the wilderness until Christ comes is correct. If you believe that then believe that all are being misled, by those who do not practice what Jesus said to do.

Sherlock, Screwing up is something people do when they are not led by Christ. Not saying that man was intended to be perfect but this world is full of screw ups which is to suggest that it is led by the Anti Christ. Theoretically if you are following Christ you don’t screw up or need the church, which brings everyone into Christs church. Simplicity, consistency, equal opportunity, peace, prosperity and long life.

So if Christ reformed areas of this world to perfection that were just as chaotic as the rest, would you let him manage the planet for you? Using of course the same philosophy outlined in the bible. Sin and corruption free operating systems is what Jesus recommended and its only a simple system and a great leader away.

If the Pope were a good shepherd his flock would not be so blemished, likewise the flock of the Messiah would be unblemished.

llc53 1st post #43 well said. May I ask your gender?

 

[thistle]

And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Its a physical and mental war between the Messiah and the ways of this world and the Messiah is the perfect man with God within him. He will be great at everything with the best support possible, facts, genetics and witnesses. Bet that he will win start to finish at everything and all will reject him, call him crazy and try to kill him. A bold and outspoken reformer is what he will be, and his objective is to make all live as one.

Expect a mysterious demonstration of miraculous abilities and the same wisdom and operating systems that Jesus endorsed. You will eat his flesh and drink his blood and not even know you have untill he reveals who he is and what he did.

Singinbeauty, I must hear more from you. bravo in #26. Walking in the wilderness until Christ comes is correct. If you believe that then believe that all are being misled, by those who do not practice what Jesus said to do.

Sherlock, Screwing up is something people do when they are not led by Christ. Not saying that man was intended to be perfect but this world is full of screw ups which is to suggest that it is led by the Anti Christ. Theoretically if you are following Christ you don’t screw up or need the church, which brings everyone into Christs church. Simplicity, consistency, equal opportunity, peace, prosperity and long life.

So if Christ reformed areas of this world to perfection that were just as chaotic as the rest, would you let him manage the planet for you? Using of course the same philosophy outlined in the bible. Sin and corruption free operating systems is what Jesus recommended and its only a simple system and a great leader away.

If the Pope were a good shepherd his flock would not be so blemished, likewise the flock of the Messiah would be unblemished.

llc53 1st post #43 well said. May I ask your gender?

Jesus also warned us of false prophets Jake99.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

Its a physical and mental war between the Messiah and the ways of this world and the Messiah is the perfect man with God within him. He will be great at everything with the best support possible, facts, genetics and witnesses. Bet that he will win start to finish at everything and all will reject him, call him crazy and try to kill him. A bold and outspoken reformer is what he will be, and his objective is to make all live as one.

Expect a mysterious demonstration of miraculous abilities and the same wisdom and operating systems that Jesus endorsed. You will eat his flesh and drink his blood and not even know you have untill he reveals who he is and what he did.

Singinbeauty, I must hear more from you. bravo in #26. Walking in the wilderness until Christ comes is correct. If you believe that then believe that all are being misled, by those who do not practice what Jesus said to do.

Sherlock, Screwing up is something people do when they are not led by Christ. Not saying that man was intended to be perfect but this world is full of screw ups which is to suggest that it is led by the Anti Christ. Theoretically if you are following Christ you don’t screw up or need the church, which brings everyone into Christs church. Simplicity, consistency, equal opportunity, peace, prosperity and long life.

So if Christ reformed areas of this world to perfection that were just as chaotic as the rest, would you let him manage the planet for you? Using of course the same philosophy outlined in the bible. Sin and corruption free operating systems is what Jesus recommended and its only a simple system and a great leader away.

If the Pope were a good shepherd his flock would not be so blemished, likewise the flock of the Messiah would be unblemished.

llc53 1st post #43 well said. May I ask your gender?

If my faith was in Joseph Ratzinger and Karol Woytja, you would be right. Unfortunately for your argument, our faith is in Christ who formed the Church and promised us that darkness would never overcome it. Maybe in an hour or so. Joseph Ratzinger is not infallible, his office is. The office of Pope and the Christ’s established Church as a whole are both protected from the sinful and fallible tendencies of humans. Our faith is in Christ and His promise, not in humans. I can elaborate but I have to run!

 

[imroc]

Cath.orProtes.?:

I am sure this will be heavily attacked. But who said “how” God was going to keep his church from succumbing to the gates of hell? Perhaps in ensuring the gates of Hell not prevail against his “church”, he sanctioned the Reformation.

I see no where in the Bible that says “how” he will do it or “when” he would do it…it could have been years after heretical views infiltrated the “church”.

Thought just occurred to me.

I would say that if it were correct in that the deformation…oops, I mean “reformation” was a tool of God to prevent the gates of hell from prevailing against the Church, then God had failed right from the get-go. Considering that the Church in the 1st century is the same Church as it was in the 1500s and even now. Your hypothetical situation is extremely similar to that of Joseph Smith and I would use the same exact truth against the situation as I would against the LDS belief system.

 

[Singinbeauty]

imroc:

I would say that if it were correct in that the deformation…oops, I mean “reformation” was a tool of God to prevent the gates of hell from prevailing against the Church, then God had failed right from the get-go. Considering that the Church in the 1st century is the same Church as it was in the 1500s and even now. Your hypothetical situation is extremely similar to that of Joseph Smith and I would use the same exact truth against the situation as I would against the LDS belief system.

But it is not the same church… You would like to think so but the way that the church leaders were going the gates of Hell may have prevailed. Look at the church’s history and you can see why. It was getting power hungry. Let me rephrase that… the church’s LEADERS were getting a bit too power hungry. Being the major religion and how entwined it was in the government. Most of the teachings and major beliefs may have been the same but it’s practices were not.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

Singinbeauty:

But it is not the same church… You would like to think so but the way that the church leaders were going the gates of Hell may have prevailed. Look at the church’s history and you can see why. It was getting power hungry. Let me rephrase that… the church’s LEADERS were getting a bit too power hungry. Being the major religion and how entwined it was in the government. Most of the teachings and major beliefs may have been the same but it’s practices were not.

That might make a little sense if EVERY major reformer didn’t make alliances with political entities. For example, without the support of German princes, Luther would have been dead in the water. Plus, the “teachings and beliefs” are what matter, here. The whole "practice what you preach was obviously not being followed at times. Nobody is claiming that the church has always had the same “practices.” The Church didn’t always have a mandatory celibate priesthood (in the Latin Rite) and the Liturgy was not always practiced in the native tongue of the people. What’s your point?

 

[Thal59]

Singinbeauty:

But it is not the same church… You would like to think so but the way that the church leaders were going the gates of Hell may have prevailed. Look at the church’s history and you can see why. It was getting power hungry. Let me rephrase that… the church’s LEADERS were getting a bit too power hungry. Being the major religion and how entwined it was in the government. Most of the teachings and major beliefs may have been the same but it’s practices were not.

…but the way that the church leaders were going the gates of Hell may have prevailed. Look at the church’s history and you can see why.<<<

I dare say that we know the church’s history better than you do. But rather than making a statement like this, could you tell me the good things the church did? Please give me actual events and dates if you can. Thank you.

Thal59

 

[Myangel]

Will Pick:

I hope this statement is a joke or do you not read the news papers
( I’ve never heard of a protestant “pastor” abusing children.)

Hate to burst your bubble but it has happened in Australia on a few occasions.

 

[CollegeCatholic]

Myangel:

Hate to burst your bubble but it has happened in Australia on a few occasions.

Catholic priests and Protestant ministers both share pretty much the same rates of molesters. The average child molester is a married, middle aged white male who is of some relation to the child.

 

[Jake99]

Thistle,

The world has been following false prophets since the beginning of time. I will pick the ones the world likes the most.

Pope JPII, accomplished nothing in fact the world has come to the brink of destruction on his watch. And that says nothing of turning a blind eye on the clergy sex abuse that was rampant during his reign as False Prophet. He exhalted himself, dressed himself in golden robes and recited a book that his followers do not comply with. I need a leader like that, like I need a shotgun blast to the face.

Ronald Reagan, said nothing did nothing and was not even that good of an actor. “Mr. Gorbachov tear down this wall” is the best thing he is known for, look at the mess that still exists and gets worse by the day in the US. No wonder every new president has to reform everything, one idiot after another trying to repair a system that is highly discouraged by Jesus.

George W. Bush No one in all of time is as dangerous and destructive as he is. When you look at the resources used to fight the economic and military wars and clean up after them, should they ever stop long enough to do so, only Satan could lead a man to manage in such a manner. He and I are opposites and I would love to have you compare the results of my leadership demonstration verses his. I claim to be the Christ what does that make GWB? Please dont wait any longer in turning the other way from GWB. According to the International Energy Agency the world has about ten years before fuel gets very scarce and population explodes. Do the math as Jesus did 2000 years ago and turn away from posession and greed.

The gates of hell wil not prevail if you stand behind the leader you have been promised and pray to every day.

I have never lost a war and I fought more of them than any man has, without firing a shot. Right is Right and I do the Right thing every time. You cannot defeat the truth and the way and the light.

 

[Sherlock]

Singinbeauty:

. Being the major religion and how entwined it was in the government. .

If that’s what was bothering the “reformers”, why then did they go on to establish the same government/church kinds of connections? The English persecuted Catholics for centuries, so Catholics had to practice their faith in hiding. Catholics couldn’t vote or hold public office. If you wanted to be an officer in the British military, you had to sign an oath that basically excluded Catholics. Other Protestant governments set up their own state churches: in Sweden, Lutheranism was the state religion, and conversion to Catholicism was punished with loss of all civil rights and perpetual banishment from the country; this continued until 1860. You want more examples? The idea that the “reformers” were bothered by church and government being “entwined” is ludicrous, and does not stand up to any kind of scrutiny.

 

[Will]

Cath.orProtes.?:

But who said “how” God was going to keep his church from succumbing to the gates of hell? Perhaps in ensuring the gates of Hell not prevail against his “church”, he sanctioned the Reformation.

Thought just occurred to me.

Not to throw a wrench in the works of all the replies you have gotten

But…

Does’t the phrase mean that the Gates of Hell can’t stand up to the Church and the Gates will eventually fail? Hence Hell can’t stand up to the Truth of God… Every knee shall bend etc…

I think most people look at it as you do. The Church under attack from Hell. But that is not how it reads. Gates don’t attack, Gates are for defence. Hell is under attack from the Church.

What do you think?

 

[Myangel]

CollegeCatholic:

Catholic priests and Protestant ministers both share pretty much the same rates of molesters. The average child molester is a married, middle aged white male who is of some relation to the child.

I dont care whether they are Catholic or Protestant, its so sad that it happens at all. May God have mercy on their souls!

 

[banjo]

Cath.orProtes.?:

Perhaps in ensuring the gates of Hell not prevail against his “church”, he sanctioned the Reformation.
.

Why would Christ initiate a hierarchical Church and institue the sacraments only to do away with them in the 16th century?

 

[javelin]

Will:

Not to throw a wrench in the works of all the replies you have gotten

But…

Does’t the phrase mean that the Gates of Hell can’t stand up to the Church and the Gates will eventually fail? Hence Hell can’t stand up to the Truth of God… Every knee shall bend etc…

I think most people look at it as you do. The Church under attack from Hell. But that is not how it reads. Gates don’t attack, Gates are for defence. Hell is under attack from the Church.

What do you think?

Fear not, that’s no wrench! What you said above that I bolded illustrates the main point – it is Truth that will destroy those gates. So, if the Church is to prevail against them, the Church *must *continue in Truth. If the Church loses the Truth, it has no power over the gates of Hell. The absence of Truth is deception, and that is where Satan, and the gates of Hell, derive their power.

So, the Church must persevere in Truth – it is Jesus’ promise.

And He definitely keeps His Word.

Peace,
javelin

 

[tdandh26]

How is it that some people seem to think that a church which contains sinners is somehow not the Church which Christ established? Did He not say, I have come for sinners…? Did He not tell us what that Church would be like in the parable of the weeds and the wheat? Did He not say there would be schisms, but woe to that man…? Was not Judas a traitor to Christ Himself, why would Jesus’s Church be any different, for He said if they have done this to me, they will also do it to you. And the servant is not greater than the master, meaning if He suffered so will His Church. I could go on but you get my point.

How can anyone doubt that Christ’s Church will contain sinners?

 

[maryj]

Jake99:

Thistle,

The world has been following false prophets since the beginning of time. I will pick the ones the world likes the most.

Pope JPII, accomplished nothing in fact the world has come to the brink of destruction on his watch. And that says nothing of turning a blind eye on the clergy sex abuse that was rampant during his reign as False Prophet. He exhalted himself, dressed himself in golden robes and recited a book that his followers do not comply with. I need a leader like that, like I need a shotgun blast to the face.

Ronald Reagan, said nothing did nothing and was not even that good of an actor. “Mr. Gorbachov tear down this wall” is the best thing he is known for, look at the mess that still exists and gets worse by the day in the US. No wonder every new president has to reform everything, one idiot after another trying to repair a system that is highly discouraged by Jesus.

George W. Bush No one in all of time is as dangerous and destructive as he is. When you look at the resources used to fight the economic and military wars and clean up after them, should they ever stop long enough to do so, only Satan could lead a man to manage in such a manner. He and I are opposites and I would love to have you compare the results of my leadership demonstration verses his. I claim to be the Christ what does that make GWB? Please dont wait any longer in turning the other way from GWB. According to the International Energy Agency the world has about ten years before fuel gets very scarce and population explodes. Do the math as Jesus did 2000 years ago and turn away from posession and greed.

The gates of hell wil not prevail if you stand behind the leader you have been promised and pray to every day.

I have never lost a war and I fought more of them than any man has, without firing a shot. Right is Right and I do the Right thing every time. You cannot defeat the truth and the way and the light.

May the Lord have mercy on your soul, may the Holy Spirit enlighten you, and may our Savior Jesus Christ forgive you of your sins. Amen