And Then They Came for J.K. Rowling

[Lou2U]

Cancel culture especially is ridiculous. I get the sentiment, but it’s gotten to the point where people csn get up in arms about a 10 second video clip that has no context.
If you have the time to argue in a twitter thread for hours you have the time to do 30 seconds of googling.

Exactly. What bothers me the most is the glee some people take out of ‘cancelling’ someone else. Like the “____isOverParty” that always seems to be trending on twitter. And there’s also huge entitlement that comes with cancelling - people think they have the right to prevent others from ever holding an opinion again. And if they do, people get angry again because how dare they not take notice that they’ve been cancelled. This is what Rowling is up against.

 

[AlbMagno]

Can you name any character with a demon’s name? The only example I can think is Draco, and there have been real Catholic people like Vlad Drakul with that name…

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I thought for sure this must change the minds of some of these people… But I was mistaken… It’s EXACTLY the same unfounded arguments and discussion as last time…

I wouldn’t be too quick to make that determination.

This latest controversy is only a week old. Most normal people are thinking about Covid19 and George Floyd. The media, fandom and Hollywood types seriously have nothing else to think about than JKR breaking ranks with them.

This controversy is only now starting to get in regular people’s radar.

If she stands her ground and doesn’t blink, this could start to shift some of the Conversation.

 

[frarmandofm]

Either way you should really stick to the subject matter of the thread.

And the subject matter of this thread is not whether Harry Potter is good/bad/indifferent. The subject matter is the backlash J.K. Rowling is getting for expressing views on gender.

 

[twf]

That’s the thing. We’ve had endless threads debating Potter on CAF. Those who condemn it have rarely, if ever, actually read the books. Typically they’ll attack them for glorifying magic… this quickly falls apart when those who have actually read the books illustrate how fantastical the “magic” is (no invocations of spirits or other entities… but rather fictional magical beings with natural powers that they’re simply born with). So then the argument becomes “an exorcist says the book uses the names of real demons”. Yet on these many threads no one has ever been able to provide a real reference or a real example other than a vague appeal to authority. The very blatant and rich Christian symbolism of the books is completely disregarded as well. I’m not convinced… “Fr Ripperger says” seems to be the only argument. I mean no disrespect to the Father, but there doesn’t appear to be a single Harry Potter critic who can actually back up this argument…yet it’s repeated so often it comes across, to me, as very serious slander against the author who has explicitly told the world that Wicca has NO place in her fictional world.

 

[TheMortenBay]

there have been real Catholic people like Vlad Drakul with that name…

Surely the Dracula family were Orthodox? Sorry to go off topic again, but this is important.

 

[AlbMagno]

Dracula himself became Catholic! If I remember right, during the epoch of the invasion of the Ottomans.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Dracula, pray for us!

 

[c4csp]

I’ll take a priests word over a pagan. Remember, Satan is father of lies. Likely Pagans and Wiccans would say this so the smoke of Satan can permeate the world. Also note, Satan does not want to be known, he loves when the world thinks he doesn’t exist or isn’t in this or that. That is exactly what he wants.

JK Rowling has the tattoo on her arm “solve et coagula”. The image of Baphomet also has this saying tattooed on its arm. Look it up. I do not think JK Rowling is promoting Christianity, and there is no argument that can be made it is in any way Christian. It is not. Magic of this kind is from Satan. So I will stay as far away from it as possible.

Why do Catholics these days dive right into secular culture and then try to rationalize it? Jesus said to not be of the world. We are too often embracing the “comforts” of the world and trying to justify it. How about instead of reading books that do nothing good for the soul, we read the lives of the martyrs?

We all seem to love the Catholic title but not the Catholic life.

 

[StudentMI]

I’ll take a priests word over a pagan.

Amen to that.

 

[jeannetherese]

If she stands her ground and doesn’t blink, this could start to shift some of the Conversation.

One can hope. Prayers offered.

 

[whatistrue]

The image of Baphomet

An image that has been called that, yes. Of course if you look more deeply into the origins of the image and the name it becomes less likely that there is an actual demon with that name or that it has those particular words tattooed on it anywhere.

Magic of this kind is from Satan.

Magic of what kind? Fictional? Some deluded people have attempted to replicate the spells in the books; none have succeeded. Because it is all made up.

I’ll take a priests word over a pagan.

As a general rule, sure. But remember that a priest can be mistaken even though he fully believes what he says, and a pagan (or even -gasp- a satanist; they are not automatically the same thing) can speak truth.

How about instead of reading books that do nothing good for the soul,

I can’t speak for anyone else, but the Potter books did me a lot of good when I read them.

 

[c4csp]

An image that has been called that, yes. Of course if you look more deeply into the origins of the image and the name it becomes less likely that there is an actual demon with that name or that it has those particular words tattooed on it anywhere.

Wow. Many Catholics have a very poor understanding of Satan’s tactics. We are called the Church Militant for a reason. One should study the faith and really understand what is taking place for the battle of our souls.

Magic of what kind? Fictional? Some deluded people have attempted to replicate the spells in the books; none have succeeded. Because it is all made up.

All part of the occult. It is all an entry to allow Satan in, no matter how innocent it appears. Satan just needs a crack and his smoke will permeate the whole room.

As a general rule, sure. But remember that a priest can be mistaken even though he fully believes what he says, and a pagan (or even -gasp- a satanist; they are not automatically the same thing) can speak truth.

True. However, what the priest says in regarding Harry Potter is edifying and leading one to Christ and to be vigilant against Satan. What the pagan says is that it is all innocent and there is no harm. Also, Harry Potter does nothing to bring someone closer to Christ, increase sanctifying grace, or anything else to merit anything in heaven. So again, as Catholics, we should heed the advice of the good priest.

 

[whatistrue]

have a very poor understanding of Satan’s tactics

And others see him everywhere, as if he were more present than Jesus.

All part of the occult.

What is part of the occult? Any entertaining fiction? Or just entertaining fiction of which you disapprove?

what the priest says in regarding Harry Potter is edifying

I disagree. It seems to me to be dividing and overly judgmental (as well as being factually in error). Of course I could be wrong, but then so can we all.

Also, Harry Potter does nothing to bring someone closer to Christ, increase sanctifying grace, or anything else to merit anything in heaven.

Perhaps for you, but please don’t presume to speak for everyone.

But enough thread drift; last word from me. If you want the last one in the exchange feel free, it makes no difference to me.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

For those who would like to listen to this recent video, most discussing Vigano’s letter to Trump and discussion about Solve et Coagula. Hence the referencing about the author and tattoo.

For close up view of the tattoo, can be found on twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1205557424595312641

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I’ve been following the recent JK Rowling uproar with some interest. What concerns me most is that she wrote her essay response and reactions seemed to change not at all in their calls for violence and dismissal of her. I see almost no one standing up for her.

She revealed some of her personal trauma in part of her explanation and is being shown little to no empathy from the mob. The people who are upset seem to require immediate ideological conformity and aren’t willing to do the work to “teach” the rest of us in order to get to their desired end. Having concerns or questions is immediately considered hateful.

I haven’t been personally concerned about the bathroom debate and will call people whatever name they ask me to, but female athletics, or the huge increase in number of young women who choose to transition are concerns and can’t just be considered settled without discussion. Are we creating a world for young women where given the choice many of them would rather not be one?

 

[Lou2U]

She revealed some of her personal trauma in part of her explanation and is being shown little to no empathy from the mob.

I think perhaps one of the worst responses are from those that mean well, but create a “hysterical woman” narrative. I read someone who said Rowling’s trauma had affected her ability to be rational about the bathroom issues, and so she should be respected but ultimately ignored. Not only is that response incredibly patronising, but it ignores the very real fact that too many women have also been subject to assault or worse. That’s why women-only spaces are so important, and keeping the word “women” is so important.

The people who are upset seem to require immediate ideological conformity and aren’t willing to do the work to “teach” the rest of us in order to get to their desired end.

What I find the most sinister is people insisting Rowling needs to “educate” herself, or that people have tried to “educate” her. What they really mean is “fall in line!”. You aren’t allowed to “educate” yourself and disagree.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Then something else I’m just confused about. So many of the actors from Harry Potter made sure to respond/react by making a stand and saying “trans women are women.” I think I’m missing some levels of meaning here. Hetero dudes who take this stand, collecting all the appreciation the internet can dole out, would you date a trans woman? And if not, are your words empty? In order to get the levels explanation on this I probably need to ask someone in the movement, but I’m not seeing a very question friendly community.

 

[twf]

All part of the occult. It is all an entry to allow Satan in, no matter how innocent it appears. Satan just needs a crack and his smoke will permeate the whole room.

This doesn’t register for me. The author has herself stated that her fictional fantastical world has nothing to do with real world Wicca. Within the context of the story, there are no invocations of demons or spirits or any other external entities…there’s a “race” of wizards who are born with natural magical gifts. Its actually a very key plot point that regular human beings CAN’T practice magic…that’s why Harry is abused as a child…his aunt’s jealousy that she’s an ordinary human who could never do magic no matter how hard she tries. If you condemn this fictional portrayal of fantastical magic, then you must logically also condemn every fairy tale, Lord of the Rings (written by a devout Catholic), the Chronicles of Narnia, and pretty much every Disney cartoon ever made from the early 20th century on… if you don’t, I don’t get the logic.

There is also rich Christian symbolism in the books which Rowling, the author, has explicitly confirmed. The seventh and final book was so “on the nose” with the Christian symbolism that some atheist fans were upset (Harry lays down his life for his friends as an ultimate act of love, rises from the dead, and thus overcomes the Dark Lord’s power over his friends).

The only other argument seems to be a vague appeal to authority that real demons are named and invoked in the books…yet I’ve never been able to get anyone to provide a source. If this is true, someone somewhere should be able to give an example. If its true and its been verified, then I agree that sounds dangerous…but no one on these endless threads about Harry Potter provides references to the actual text…it all boils down to “a priest said it so it is true”.

I can show you where Harry Potter quotes Scripture. I can show you where Dumbledore explains to Harry how his mother’s sacrifice, how by shedding her blood for her son, she saved him. I can give you many examples of the Christian symbolism in the books…but no one can provide me with a single shred of proof that there are actual demonic references. No one even tries. Its just “a priest said it so shut up and believe it or you are condemned”.

What I see in all of these threads is grave slander against a public figure. She says the Christian symbolism in the books is real. She says there is no Wicca in the books. You’re condemning her in a public forum of promoting the diabolical…that is a VERY grave charge…if you can’t prove if, you’re in morally dangerous territory…especially as you’re openly condemning Catholics who enjoy the books.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’ve been following the recent JK Rowling uproar with some interest. What concerns me most is that she wrote her essay response and reactions seemed to change not at all in their calls for violence and dismissal of her. I see almost no one standing up for her.

I’ve been a lurker of the Harry Potter fandom since the mid 2000’s.
Kids and young 20-something’s would post their fanfiction to the various archives, but they all got to “know” each other on livejournal and that’s where most of the drama occurred.
I can tell you that back in the day, revealing past sexual abuse would bring you all sorts of sympathy and protection.
I’m saying this a bit cynically because there were fandomers who would use the claim of sexual abuse to shut down conversations and get their own way and climb through the ranks of fandom hierarchy.

And now all these Big Name Fans don’t care about their (former) beloved author’s revelation.

There are so many layers upon layers to this story.

Somebody could write a book someday (and prolly make a big deal of money)