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cathgal
Guest
So you’re saying He is a 2 persons being??
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lak611
Guest
No, I am not a gnostic. He is fully human and fully divine at the same, not 2 different persons.
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cathgal
Guest
So He’s not 2 persons but one, and which person is that?
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Here is my profession of faith - well at least part of it, which deals with this thread:
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Living God, born of the Father before all ages. He is 100% true God - God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not made. He is consubstantial, that is one in being/essence with the Father. Through Him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven. He was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Ever Virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again from the dead, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge both the living and the dead. Of His Kingdom, there shall be no end.
I confess that Jesus is Lord. I profess His Incarnation. As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother. He is the Son of God, both God and man. He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God. He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ. He has two natural wills, one divine and one human - according to the decrees of the Third Council of Constantinople. He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
That should about cover it for now. I pray that I didn’t forget anything.
Here is my profession of faith - well at least part of it, which deals with this thread:
Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Living God, born of the Father before all ages. He is 100% true God - God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten, not made. He is consubstantial, that is one in being/essence with the Father. Through Him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven. He was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Ever Virgin Mary, and was made man. He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered, died, and was buried. He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again from the dead, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge both the living and the dead. Of His Kingdom, there shall be no end.
I confess that Jesus is Lord. I profess His Incarnation. As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother. He is the Son of God, both God and man. He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ. And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God. He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person. As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ. He has two natural wills, one divine and one human - according to the decrees of the Third Council of Constantinople. He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day. He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds. Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
That should about cover it for now. I pray that I didn’t forget anything.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
As you noted earlier, person is not the same thing as nature. Jesus is one person, but with a divine nature and with a human nature. In His human nature, He is like us in all things but sin. In His divine nature is equal to the Father and the Holy Spirit. He is perfect God and perfect man.
G
Grace_Angel
Guest
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Second person of the most Holy Trinity, The son of Miriam of Nazareth, my Redeemer,
He is my Lord and my God. Nothing less.
Grace Angel
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Yeshua, Son of God, Son of Miriam and Foster-Son of Yosef.
Quick question. If you use the semitic form of Mary, why not the same with Jesus and Joseph?
Yeshua, Son of God, Son of Miriam and Foster-Son of Yosef.
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lak611
Guest
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Hello Lak 611. You did a marvellous redittiio. Your profession of the faith was beautiful.Yes, both of you are correct.
Now tell me Why? you believe in this profession faith.
Grace Angel.
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Grace_Seeker
Guest
I think you need to change your screen name. Your theology is even less catholic than mine.
L
lak611
Guest
You got the wrong poster. That was JMJ_Coder, who posted it. He put into words what I believe and was unable to state so well.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
I wish I could take the credit for the eloquence. The first two paragraphs of my profession are basically the Christological section of the Apostles/Nicene/Tridentine Creeds and the third large section is the Christological section of the Athanasian Creed, with the addition of a reference to the two wills. All four creeds are approved in the Catholic Church.
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cathgal
Guest
Sorry to say, I believe you don’t understand Catholic theology.
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cathgal
Guest
Jesus is one person with 2 natures, but this doesn’t answer His personhood.
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Grace_Seeker
Guest
I probably don’t. But what you have posted (see above) IS in direct contradiction to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
From the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Council of Chalcedon
This false teaching sounds like what you have been saying – he is a single divine person with a single human nature.
Contrary to your position the following is that which is affirmed by the Catholic Church:
He is one person, two natures (and to ask the question which person is he, as you have done above, is to not understand the original statement). You cannot divide his person. This was the formulation of belief that came out of Chalcedon, and expressed by the term “hypostatic union” – A theological term used with reference to the Incarnation to express the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human.
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mrs_abbott
Guest
Christ is my Savior and friend! He died for us so that we might have eternal life but yet He doesn’t just leave us to fend for ourselves. He’s always there for me (my friend). :heaven:
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cathgal
Guest
I have not made any contradiction to the Church’s teachings. You have misunderstood.
What I have been saying is correct. Jesus is a single person, a divine person, with a human nature. I said nothing about ‘single’ human nature. Jesus is a divine person which also indicates that He has a divine nature in addition to his human nature as man.
You said he is a human being which signifies that he is a human person and that is incorrect. Jesus has a human nature, but He is not a human person. This is the distinction I’m trying to make.
I agreed with the teachings. Jesus has 2 natures, but He is a divine person. Again, person is not the same as nature.
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lak611
Guest
Graceseeker, you are correct. This IS the Catholic teaching.
J
jkatpc
Guest
I answered four as correct: 100% fully God (well, duh!), 100% fully man (more so than us–he was perfect in his humanity), two natures, and two wills.
G
Grace_Seeker
Guest
Very good Cathgal. Then what we have is a mutual miscommunication society of which we are both members.
Don’t know if you’re recall my early statement:
a divine person. He is that, but he is also a human being. And he has a divine nature. If you are going to make a distinction, you have to include the whole and not just describe one aspect of his personage or nature or you have been indistinct in saying who Christ is. I wasn’t saying that your initial statement was wrong as much as it seemed incomplete. And since you were trying to make a distinction, that not saying the whole thing was to be incorrect by viture of omission that which was also critically distinct about Jesus.
He is a human being. In fact so much the archetype of what it means to be human that he is called the second Adam. Jesus is a human being, this is what 1 John and John 1 both emphasize. That is what the incarnation was about. Jesus wasn’t just wearing a human body as a costume. He really was and is human, along with being God.
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