"And with your spirit" I don't get it

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I have read that the response “And with your spirit” is an acknowledgment and recognition of the Holy Spirit present in a unique way in the priest. But since this is in response to “the LORD be with you,” it makes little sense since the Spirit IS the Lord. So the priest says, “The Lord be with you,” and we’re saying “and may the Lord be with your Lord, too.”

Furthermore, if the word spirit refers to the holy Spirit, why isn’t “spirit” capitalized?

This post is serious, I’m just trying to understand.
 
TheAdvocate said:
I have read that the response “And with your spirit” is an acknowledgment and recognition of the Holy Spirit present in a unique way in the priest. But since this is in response to “the LORD be with you,” it makes little sense since the Spirit IS the Lord. So the priest says, “The Lord be with you,” and we’re saying “and may the Lord be with your Lord, too.”

Furthermore, if the word spirit refers to the holy Spirit, why isn’t “spirit” capitalized?

This post is serious, I’m just trying to understand.
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Because it doesn’t refer to the Holy Spirit, it refers the the Priest’s spirit, just like it says.

First off, “and also with you” is a terrible mistranslation of “et cum spirito tuo,” the Latin form of the response. Only English seemed to have such a translation problem, as the response in german, italian, spanish, french, etc is “and with your spirit.” The new translation fixes the anti-latin tendencies of the previous effort.

Furthermore, the new response is much more theologically rich. We are not just wishing peace upon the priest, we are calling the Lord to enter and fill the Priest’s spirit, which was forever indellibly changed when he was ordained. We are not merely saying hello, we are calling the priest to do his priestly duty, or our behalf, before the altar.

Finally, the response is the way it is because it is biblical. The obsolete translation removed so many biblical references, this one included. St. Paul often used similar phrases in his letters. For example, in Galations 6:18 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren” or in Philemon 1:25 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.”

We should rejoice in responding to our priests in the words of St. Paul!
 
PrayForMeStJude said:
Because it doesn’t refer to the Holy Spirit, it refers the the Priest’s spirit, just like it says.

First off, “and also with you” is a terrible mistranslation of “et cum spirito tuo,” the Latin form of the response. Only English seemed to have such a translation problem, as the response in german, italian, spanish, french, etc is “and with your spirit.” The new translation fixes the anti-latin tendencies of the previous effort.
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At least two Philippine languages also suffer this deficiency, and they don’t appear to be anywhere near correction. Tagalog and Cebuano are affected.
 
From the USCCB Commentary on the Revised Missal
At the beginning of Mass, immediately after the Sign of the Cross, the celebrant extends one of three different liturgical greetings to the people. The one that is perhaps most commonly used is “The Lord be with you.” It is a familiar line that will remain unchanged with the new translation.
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However, our new response will be the first major change in the Order of Mass. Instead of “And also with you,” we will now be saying, “And with your spirit.” This new response will also be made at the four other times during Mass when this dialogue occurs: at the reading of the Gospel, at the beginning of the Eucharistic Prayer, during the Sign of Peace (when the priest says, “The peace of the Lord be with you always”), and at the conclusion of Mass.
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Why the change? At the most basic level, “And with your spirit” is the proper translation of the original Latin text: “Et cum spiritu tuo.” By correctly expressing this dialogue in English, we are actually aligning our translation with that of all the other major language groups, which have long been translating the Latin properly. For example, in Spanish, the response is “Y con tu espíritu.”
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But even beyond the linguistic, the recovery of the word “spirit” also carries Scriptural meaning. One form or other of “The Lord be with you” appears multiple times in the Bible, including the greeting given by the Archangel Gabriel to Mary at the Annunciation: “Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you” (Lk 1:28). Then, in the Pauline epistles, multiple variations of “The Lord be with your spirit” are employed as parting words to different church communities. Understood together, this liturgical dialogue in the Mass is an exchange whereby all present – both Priest and congregation – ask that the Holy Spirit (whom we call “the Lord, the giver of life” in the Nicene Creed) establish a stronger communion among us.
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In addition, for the congregation to answer the Priest, “And with your spirit,” is actually a theological statement about what we Catholics believe regarding ordained ministers. No. 367 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church speaks of how “spirit” can refer to an elevation of the soul, whereby the soul “is raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.” Through Holy Orders, Christ has forever configured the Priest’s soul to Himself in a special way, by the power of the Holy Spirit. By specifically referencing the Priest’s spirit, we can affirm this transformation and pray for his ministry.
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This new response of “And with your spirit” will be a difficult change to remember – perhaps one of the most difficult for us laity. However, it will not take long to grow accustomed to the new wording, especially given its frequency. Above all, we should reflect on how it conveys the content of Sacred Scripture, as well as the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.
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“and with your spirit” is the literal English transition of the Latin phrase " et cum spirito tuo. For an explanation as to why spirit is lower case, I invite you to watch this video, that was made in conjunction with my Parish and the Diocese of Des Moines for an explanation why, which is about 2:50 into the video:

vimeo.com/30819651
 
We are so used to “and also with you” that we don’t even think about it.

The corrected translation is a great time not only to look at the proper words, but also of the previous version. It occurs to me that “and also with you” is just a less obviously flippant way of saying “and right back at you”.
 
lutherlic said:
We are so used to “and also with you” that we don’t even think about it.

The corrected translation is a great time not only to look at the proper words, but also of the previous version. It occurs to me that “and also with you” is just a less obviously flippant way of saying “and right back at you”.
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i prefer in english and also with you rather than and with your spirit. flows better in my opinion. but it is also a good thing they are correcting these translation errors, as n other languages like spanish we have y con tu espiritu, which sounds better than and with your spirit but who am i to say anythingXD
 
reinamaria said:
i prefer in english and also with you rather than and with your spirit. flows better in my opinion. but it is also a good thing they are correcting these translation errors, as n other languages like spanish we have y con tu espiritu, which sounds better than and with your spirit but who am i to say anythingXD
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The way to solve all these issues of personal preference? A full return to Latin! 😃
 
PrayForMeStJude said:
Finally, the response is the way it is because it is biblical. The obsolete translation removed so many biblical references, this one included. St. Paul often used similar phrases in his letters. For example, in Galations 6:18 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren” or in Philemon 1:25 “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.”
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Let’s not forget Luke:

“Hail, Ave, full of grace, gratia plena, the Lord is with thee, Dominus tecum, blessed art thou among women, benedicta tu in mulieribus.”

I’m not 100% sure how it fits in with the “spirit” but FWIW according to Fr Hardon:
The angel continued: Dominus Tecum, “The Lord is with thee.” What does it mean to have the Lord with someone? It means that God loves that person. It means that God blesses that person. It means that God is pleased with that person. Never has any angelic or human person, been closer to God, nearer to God, than His mother Mary.
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therealpresence.org/archives/Angelology/Angelology_022.htm
The way to solve all these issues of personal preference? A full return to Latin!
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I agree. It seems any translation loses the Latin nuance. If it’s still a mystery, so be it. 😉
 
“And with your spirit” is not a full return to Latin, it returns to something more ancient. In the Divine Liturgy we also use “and with your spirit” as a response to the priest/bishop. Since the Eastern Rites never had the Latin and had Greek, this points to “and with your spirit” as an older form of response, possibly Aramaic during the time of the Apostles. If you read here: blog.adw.org/2010/05/and-with-your-spirit-its-not-what-you-think/ you will read a quote from St. John Chrysostom, who wrote the current Liturgy commonly used in the Byzantine Rite.

So know that “and with your spirit” is not only theologically accurate, its a more ancient traditional response that the entire Church shares. So don’t resist that change and accept it with open arms.
 
I believe the Book of Common Prayer in the Episcopal Church uses “And with thy spirit,” which would be an even better rendering of the Latin into English, “thy” being the informal version of “you.” This form went out of common practice long ago, and now the informal “thy” is considered stuffy and formal. I know the reasons for using “thy” would be lost on most people, but using the informal emphasizes a closer, more intimate relationship with God.
 
The best way I’ve heard it explained is this, Priest “the Lord be with you”
Us, be for us the priest you were ordained to be(and with your spirit)
 
ConstantineTG said:
“And with your spirit” is not a full return to Latin, it returns to something more ancient. In the Divine Liturgy we also use “and with your spirit” as a response to the priest/bishop. Since the Eastern Rites never had the Latin and had Greek, this points to “and with your spirit” as an older form of response, possibly Aramaic during the time of the Apostles. If you read here: blog.adw.org/2010/05/and-with-your-spirit-its-not-what-you-think/ you will read a quote from St. John Chrysostom, who wrote the current Liturgy commonly used in the Byzantine Rite.

So know that “and with your spirit” is not only theologically accurate, its a more ancient traditional response that the entire Church shares. So don’t resist that change and accept it with open arms.
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Very interesting. I have been to a few Byzantine Divine Liturgies, and have read through the text of some other rites, and it is inspiration how much we share. There is actually quite a bit of overlap between some parts of the Byzantine and Roman rites. Unfortunately, some of the similarity was lost with the Novus Ordo, and then even more with the horrible English translation.

The new translation is a great step, but as I said, for us Roman-rite Catholics, the fastest way to get back to our history, with all its ties to the other rites, is a quick return to Latin.
 
The easiest answer, is because the greeting is Biblical.
Paul used it, perhaps idiom common in his time (“The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.” 2 Timothy 4:22).
This greeting come into the Church Liturgy, universally. Thus you find the Church, East and West greet each other using this greeting.

Basically, Christian Liturgy is Scripture in action (heavily using/referring the Psalms). This is very apparent for someone who contemplates the Scripture often, especially Lectio Divina.

In proper Roman Rite opening, it starts with introit which is Psalms verse sandwiched between introit, usually also verses from Scripture. Thus, beginning from the start, people is immersed into the Scripture, contemplating the verses, acting it out in the Liturgy, living it out in the world.

I think literally translating “and with your spirit” serve this purpose very well.
 
PrayForMeStJude said:
The way to solve all these issues of personal preference? A full return to Latin! 😃
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Why stop there?

The Church in Rome was rather late in adopting the vernacular, not adopting it until the fourth century or so. Before this, rather then Celebrating in the Latin vernacular, Greek was used.

So why not go back to the original Greek, and adv the translate problems entirely. 🙂
 
dochawk said:
Why stop there?

The Church in Rome was rather late in adopting the vernacular, not adopting it until the fourth century or so. Before this, rather then Celebrating in the Latin vernacular, Greek was used.

So why not go back to the original Greek, and adv the translate problems entirely. 🙂
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Archaeologists have found that Latin was used in the first century liturgies. And the Latin we use in the Mass was codified by the classicists around 50 B.C. and Christianized by the Church later. Greek and Latin lived side by side for well over 500 years. Rather complex relationship, though.

By the time it was firmly established by the 4th century, the Latin used in the Mass was not really the vernacular. The more vernacular Vulgar Latin already stripped away many of the beautiful case and verbal endings in the Classical tongue.
 
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