And you thought your parish had liturgical abuses

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George789:
What about the young girl holding the prayer book for the cardinal??? Is that liturgical abuse? Can girls participate in the mass that way? Can a priest wear his stole at an angle? I am not sure but those things don’t seem right.
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Girls legitimately acting as altar servers (a separate issue) are not barred from any of the actions proper to that role by reason of their gender.

Deacons wear the stole diagonally. The man with his stole at an angle would be a deacon, not a priest.

Many beautiful liturgical vestments from the 16th century (and probably earlier, but textiles don’t usuallly survive that long) were covered in fine needlework portraying figures of people and animals, as well as symbols and abstract designs. There is nothing innovative about the stole worn by the priest on the right.

I don’t approve of the Mass being presented as a multi-media spectacle, but I am dismayed at how quick so many in these forums are to put the worst possible interpretation on things they are unfamiliar with.

Deborah
 
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bellesjoy:
I don’t know how many of you are familiar with Bishop Vasa, Bishop of Baker, Oregon. He is the one who has asked anyone in visiable ministries (lector, EMHC, cantor, teacher, etc.) to take an affirmation of faith before being invested to serve. (see Karl Keatings e-letter of July 20)
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Where do I sign?

A priest friend of mine is all fired up and ready to attend the 2004 Catechetical Conference. Oh, well, he’s retired, so there’s a limit to how much damage he will do – or maybe he’ll come to his senses when he sees how bizarre this all is.
 
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Peace-bwu:
Yep, so true, every time I look at them I find something else wrong… the worst part is that this was a Catholic Religious Education Congress.:bigyikes: And we wonder why so many of our youth (me once included) don’t know their faith well enough!
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My thought exactly! This event could just as easily have been held in the new LA cathedral and it wouldn’t have appeared much differently. I’m sure a Freudian could come up with a meaningful explanation for the prominent use of “pink.”
 
I’m sure a Freudian could come up with a meaningful explanation for the prominent use of "pink
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A few things come to mind - one “Ladies Choice”.

The other is that phrase that California’s Governor recently used and was so criticized for - 😉
 
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debeater:
Girls legitimately acting as altar servers (a separate issue) are not barred from any of the actions proper to that role by reason of their gender.

Deacons wear the stole diagonally. The man with his stole at an angle would be a deacon, not a priest.

Many beautiful liturgical vestments from the 16th century (and probably earlier, but textiles don’t usuallly survive that long) were covered in fine needlework portraying figures of people and animals, as well as symbols and abstract designs. There is nothing innovative about the stole worn by the priest on the right.

I don’t approve of the Mass being presented as a multi-media spectacle, but I am dismayed at how quick so many in these forums are to put the worst possible interpretation on things they are unfamiliar with.

Deborah
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You are quite correct that the person with the diagonal stole would be a deacon. However, per Redemptionis Sacramentum
, the proper vestment for a deacon at Mass is the dalmatic, to be worn over an alb and stole.

I will, however grant, in Christian charity, that this conference occured BEFORE RS was published, and thus make allowances for the lack of dalmatic by the deacon and the large pitchers of wine being consecrated.

I will, however, expect to see those abuses corrected by next years conference. If we as simple laity can read the GIRM and RS, can we not expect the same from a Cardinal?

In addition, unless the USCCB requests an indult, and the Vatican approves, Liturgical Dance in a Western environment is not licit. I would like to see that go as well.
 
I will, however grant, in Christian charity, that this conference occured BEFORE RS was published, and thus make allowances for the lack of dalmatic by the deacon and the large pitchers of wine being consecrated
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However, RS has no new rules, no new expectations that were not already to be in place. It is just affirming them.

This is from the “old” GIRM

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III. SACRED VESSELS

**SACRED VESSELS
  1. Among the requisites for the celebration of Mass, the sacred vessels hold a place of honor, especially the chalice and paten, which are used in presenting, consecrating, and receiving the bread and wine.
  2. Vessels should be made from materials that are solid and that in the particular region are regarded as noble. The conference of bishops will be the judge in this matter. But preference is to be given to materials that do not break easily or become unusable.
  3. Chalices and other vessels that serve as receptacles for the blood of the Lord are to have a cup of nonabsorbent material. The base may be of any other solid and worthy material.
  4. Vessels that serve as receptacles for the eucharistic bread, such as a paten, ciborium, pyx, monstrance, etc., may be made of
    other materials that are prized in the region, for example, ebony or other hard woods, as long as they are suited to sacred use.
  5. For the consecration of hosts one rather large paten may properly be used; on it is placed the bread for the priest as well as for the ministers and the faithful.
  6. Vessels made from metal should ordinarily be gilded on the inside if the metal is one that rusts; gilding is not necessary if the metal is more precious than gold and does not rust.
**
**SOURCE: http://www.christusrex.org/www1/mcitl/girm.html

**
 
and the large pitchers of wine being consecrated
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I was more refering to the fact that they were concecrating the wine in large pitchers\flagons\carafes and then fractioning the Precious Blood into calices afterward.

That specifically mentioned as abuse in RS as it has the potential of spillage.
 
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KennySe:
glass Kool-Aid pitchers?

next year perhaps there will be more reverence to the cup if they use wine-in-a-boxes.
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Hey–at my parish we use wine from a box all the time. The cardboard really adds to the bouquet!!

Micki
 
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Brendan:
I was more refering to the fact that they were concecrating the wine in large pitchers\flagons\carafes and then fractioning the Precious Blood into calices afterward.

That specifically mentioned as abuse in RS as it has the potential of spillage.
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The following newletter from the USCCB elaborates on this as well.
the USCCB newsletter
usccb.org/liturgy/innews/032004.htm
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**Quote:**On June 14, 2001, Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds in the Dioceses of the United States of America was approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and subsequently confirmed by the Holy See. Numbers 36 and 37 of these Norms address the procedures to be followed when Holy Communion under both kinds is celebrated. Read in tandem with the instruction Redemptionis sacramentum, these norms describe the following procedure for the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds:
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“The altar is prepared with corporal, purificator, Missal, and chalice (unless the chalice is prepared at a side table) by the deacon and servers.

The gifts of bread and wine are brought forward by the faithful and received by the priest or deacon at a convenient place (Cf. GIRM, no. 333).” (Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds (NDHC), no. 36)
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Because the instruction prohibits the consecration of wine in flagons, chalices for distribution to priests and to the faithful are prepared at this point. It should be noted that the principal chalice and the vessel containing the bread should be larger than the smaller vessels for distribution to the faithful. Smaller chalices of wine may be prepared at the altar or at a side table and are then suitably placed on the altar. “As the Agnus Dei or Lamb of God is begun, the Bishop or priest alone, or with the assistance of the deacon, and if necessary of concelebrating priests, breaks the eucharistic bread. Other empty…ciboria or patens are then brought to the altar if this is necessary. The deacon or priest places the consecrated bread in several ciboria or patens…, if necessary, …as required for the distribution of Holy Communion. If it is not possible to accomplish this distribution in a reasonable time, the celebrant may call upon the assistance of other deacons or concelebrating priests… (NDHC, no. 37)”
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