Andy Stanley Sermon: "Brand: New"

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If anyone has the time, watch this sermon by the non-denominational evangelical pastor Andy Stanley: youtu.be/CoAEF1YJ2dA. In it, he gives a simplistic view of Church history and then relegates sacramental groups like us Roman Catholics to the old, outdated, selfish “Temple Model” (not really sure where this “Temple Model” is named in scripture, but Stanley pushes the point exhaustingly). He gives churches like his the honorific title of “Jesus Model” because of its ethical simplicity and libertarian sense of “freedom.” For those belonging to any kind of hierarchical, sacramental community, how does this make you feel, and are you worried about Stanley’s message being taken seriously by so many people?

(Andy Stanley has always irked me a little mainly owing to the general ambiguity of his sermons, as well as his tendency to revolutionize everything about Christianity or the Church.)
 
If anyone has the time, watch this sermon by the non-denominational evangelical pastor Andy Stanley: youtu.be/CoAEF1YJ2dA. In it, he gives a simplistic view of Church history and then relegates sacramental groups like us Roman Catholics to the old, outdated, selfish “Temple Model” (not really sure where this “Temple Model” is named in scripture, but Stanley pushes the point exhaustingly). He gives churches like his the honorific title of “Jesus Model” because of its ethical simplicity and libertarian sense of “freedom.” For those belonging to any kind of hierarchical, sacramental community, how does this make you feel, and are you worried about Stanley’s message being taken seriously by so many people?

(Andy Stanley has always irked me a little mainly owing to the general ambiguity of his sermons, as well as his tendency to revolutionize everything about Christianity or the Church.)
I think his position on freedom and simplicity are great in theory in one sense but for practical purposes to borrow Jewish terminology the merits of mitzvah’s is that they are concrete and they lead to the same destination of freedom and love and closeness to God etc.
Given our propensity to sin(weakness) I think people can wiggle or justify there way out of some of these vague but true statements(Love God and love your neighbor) without some corresponding concrete commandments and rituals.
Hope this was on topic but it came to mind so thought I’d add my two cents.
 
I’d say the phrase “temple model” isn’t named in scripture because…that is the era he is talking about, the era of the temple. He seems to be referring to the Jewish temples.

I’ve never seen this guy before, but just looked him up…I see he’s a former journalist who has written 20 books and a zillion podcasts of sermons and his father was a pastor, too.

I can’t seem to download the youtube video you posted, but I’d guess by your description that he is describing this Jesus model as a simpler, looser, non-structure that is more the way it was when Jesus was preaching those three years because…that is indeed closer to how it was back then, was it not?
Before the hierarchical set up and sacramental rituals evolved over the next several centuries.
What he says is taken seriously by a lot of people because many do prefer a more “ethical simplicity”.

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I often wonder why you are on a Catholic site when you never have anything good to say about the Catholic Church.
:hmmm:
 
If anyone has the time, watch this sermon by the non-denominational evangelical pastor Andy Stanley: youtu.be/CoAEF1YJ2dA. In it, he gives a simplistic view of Church history and then relegates sacramental groups like us Roman Catholics to the old, outdated, selfish “Temple Model” (not really sure where this “Temple Model” is named in scripture, but Stanley pushes the point exhaustingly). He gives churches like his the honorific title of “Jesus Model” because of its ethical simplicity and libertarian sense of “freedom.” For those belonging to any kind of hierarchical, sacramental community, how does this make you feel, and are you worried about Stanley’s message being taken seriously by so many people?

(Andy Stanley has always irked me a little mainly owing to the general ambiguity of his sermons, as well as his tendency to revolutionize everything about Christianity or the Church.)
He’s a TV evangelist like his dad. Why should anyone care about his ‘teachings’?
 
They chased his Father and First Baptist of Atlanta right out of town during the 80s or 90s into the northern suburbs. Im sure the Baptists still think well of both Stanleys, but you see nothing in the way of TV, paper, or editorial coverage of them or their churches. It is like they are not even here.

This is the first I heard anything of them at all in years, other than when father and son had a huge public rift. I have nothing against either one. Really don’t know much about the son Andy.
 
Before the hierarchical set up and sacramental rituals evolved over the next several centuries.
Jesus instituted the hierarchical and sacramental systems. And since He promised guidance to the Church, they have evolved exactly the way He planned.
 
Jesus instituted the hierarchical and sacramental systems. And since He promised guidance to the Church, they have evolved exactly the way He planned.
She’s hit and run. She makes these statements and never shows up again to defend it or prove it.
 
Andy Stanley is just putting a new coat of paint on an old idea floated by numerous evangelical types. I have heard this analogy before, equating Catholic and Orthodox churches with a temple mentality. They see the Liturgy as being a reenactment of the Priests in the Temple of Jerusalem. There are some similarities, especially in the EF, but this is just another method used to justify protestantism.
 
I’ve heard this specific sermon series repreached in a denominational Christian Church. The idea is that other religions and Judaism had things in common such as holy places, holy writings, ritual, etc… and that Christ, Paul, etc… preached a brand new way of being in relationship with God. The point that they try to make is that there is a chasm between the OT and the NT (you don’t put new wine in old wineskins), and the New Covenant is wholly apart from the old.
 
I’ve heard this specific sermon series repreached in a denominational Christian Church. The idea is that other religions and Judaism had things in common such as holy places, holy writings, ritual, etc… and that Christ, Paul, etc… preached a brand new way of being in relationship with God. The point that they try to make is that there is a chasm between the OT and the NT (you don’t put new wine in old wineskins), and the New Covenant is wholly apart from the old.
Exactly, yet the continuity between the OT and NT is obvious. Remember, all scripture quoted by the Apostles and St. Paul are OT scriptures. There was no NT. They were writing it as they taught the early churches.
There is a new focus within the evangelical denominations to study the early church Fathers. I am curious as to how they can work out the separation between the True Church, and their seperated branch. Of course, they keep Constantine in their back pocket for that.
 
If anyone has the time, watch this sermon by the non-denominational evangelical pastor Andy Stanley: youtu.be/CoAEF1YJ2dA. In it, he gives a simplistic view of Church history and then relegates sacramental groups like us Roman Catholics to the old, outdated, selfish “Temple Model” (not really sure where this “Temple Model” is named in scripture, but Stanley pushes the point exhaustingly). He gives churches like his the honorific title of “Jesus Model” because of its ethical simplicity and libertarian sense of “freedom.” For those belonging to any kind of hierarchical, sacramental community, how does this make you feel, and are you worried about Stanley’s message being taken seriously by so many people?

(Andy Stanley has always irked me a little mainly owing to the general ambiguity of his sermons, as well as his tendency to revolutionize everything about Christianity or the Church.)
Just finished listening to his sermon, which appears to be the 3rd part of a 5 part series.

By the way, I didn’t know who Andy Stanley was until now, although I am familiar with his father, Dr Charles Stanley, because his TV show airs on a local TV station on Sunday mornings where I live and I sometimes listen to it as our family gets ready for church. Andy Stanley was raised Baptist but now is apparently a non-denominational pastor who has over 32,000 members in his churches in the Atlanta suburbs (from Wikipedia).

I think he made some good points in his sermon that could be valuable to all Christians. However, I think he took it too far to the point of almost dismissing the need for sacramental communities altogether, which is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, as my mother used to say.

Good points he made (my opinion): All Christians need to focus on loving other people (“They will know we are Christians by our love”), as highlighted by Jesus, Apostle Paul, and Apostle Peter in John 13:34-35,Galations 5:6, and I Pet 1:22 respectively.

Examples of ‘Temple Model Thinking’ (a term he coined) that we should avoid:
  • Dwelling on wanting to know how close you can actually come to sin without actually sinning. In other words, trying to focus on getting closer to sin rather than closer to God.
  • Being more spiritually concerned with missing church than on how you mistreated a co-worker at your job.
Points I disagreed with:
  • Seemed to glorify Protestant reformers and minimized the negative effects of the Reformation, like the splintering into countless Christian denominations.
  • Seemed to imply (to me) that loving one’s neighbor was the main thing that mattered and that having correct doctrine was not very important.
  • Seemed to indicate that those who went to fight in the Crusades did it for political reasons or to get their sins forgiven by the Pope rather than fighting for a just cause.
Summary:
I think it is a good reminder for all Christians to focus on loving the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul and loving our neighbor as ourselves (Matt 22:37-39) rather than just focusing on following religious rules in a legalistic way, which can sometimes happen to any Christian, especially those who belong to more liturgical faith communities.

However, there are important ties between the Old and New Testaments and that Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to ignore it. I got the impression Andy Stanley doesn’t see much value in the Old Testament.

In my opinion, those who minimize the importance of correct Christian doctrine and replace it with just a ‘love your neighbor’ approach are creating spiritual confusion for their flock and are doing a disservice to our Lord. I hope Andy Stanley isn’t doing that but that was the impression I got from his sermon.
 
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