Angel and Star

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St. Matthew says Star, Matt, 2: 9.

St. Luke says Angel, Luke 2, 8-9.

In the Book of Revelations, John says Angels are Stars, Rev. 1: 20.

Matt says Magi. Luke says Shepherds.

Thus I have at least three questions:
  1. Are the angels described as stars?
  2. Are shepherds the same as magi (wise men)? (We are sheep.)
What do the Fathers and Doctors of the Church say?

Thanks
 
Seamus_Sully said:
St. Matthew says Star, Matt, 2: 9.

St. Luke says Angel, Luke 2, 8-9.

In the Book of Revelations, John says Angels are Stars, Rev. 1: 20.

Matt says Magi. Luke says Shepherds.

Thus I have at least three questions:
  1. Are the angels described as stars?
Click to expand...
In the Nativity narratives, no.
  1. Are shepherds the same as magi (wise men)?
Click to expand...
No. Matthew and Luke are writing about Jesus’ birth being announced on two different occasions involving different people.
 
The Ancient Hebrews believed that the Angels had authority given by God over the stars and planets. Some interpret that when Jesus said something to the effect, that soon the prince of this world, refering to Satan will fall, it had to do with the authority that God gave Satan over the earth before Satan became a fallen Angel.

CS Lewis wrote a triligy about this idea where the other planets in our solar system were under the authority of Angels who were still dedicated to God and they did not have original sin or the fall of Adam and Eve.
 
I am wondering if the shepherds were the kind of shepherds that the Good Shepherd is.

Also, I am wondering if the Magi shepherds as the Good Shepherd is.

I am wondering if the literal interpretation of the Star in St. Matthew’s Gospel means angel.

Any further suggestions.
 
Septuagint translation of “Helel [read “Helal”] ben Shaḥar” (= “the brilliant one,” “son of the morning”), name of the day, or morning, star, to whose mythical fate that of the King of Babylon is compared in the prophetic vision (Isa. xiv. 12-14). It is obvious that the prophet in attributing to the Babylonian king boastful pride, followed by a fall, borrowed the idea from a popular legend connected with the morning star; and Gunkel (“Schöpfung und Chaos,” pp. 132-134) is undoubtedly correct when he holds that it represents a Babylonian or Hebrew star-myth similar to the Greek legend of Phaethon. The brilliancy of the morning star, which eclipses all other stars, but is not seen during the night, may easily have given rise to a myth such as was told of Ethana and Zu: he was led by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star-gods on the northern mountain of the gods (comp. Ezek. xxviii. 14; Ps. xlviii. 3 [A.V. 2]), but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. Stars were regarded throughout antiquity as living celestial beings (Job xxxviii. 7).

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=612&letter=L&search=star

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1042&letter=S&search=star%20mouring
 
Daniel Marsh

Thanks for a great link.

Thanks for your help.
 
I think that I am coming to the conclusion that St. Matthew’s star’s literal meaning is angel.

I think that I am coming to the conclusion that the shepherds are religious, spiritual or Jewish religous leaders.

I think that I am coming to the conclusion that the Magi are also Jewish religious shepherds.

I do not know as of yet, therefore I am looking for other Biblical ideas. Also, I am hoping a Church Fathers scholar could help.

Thanks!!!
 
Seamus_Sully said:
I think that I am coming to the conclusion that St. Matthew’s star’s literal meaning is angel.
**
I think that I am coming to the conclusion that the shepherds are religious, spiritual or Jewish religous leaders.

I think that I am coming to the conclusion that the Magi are also Jewish religious shepherds.**
I do not know as of yet, therefore I am looking for other Biblical ideas. Also, I am hoping a Church Fathers scholar could help.

Thanks!!!
Click to expand...
I think you would have to show evidence to support that view because I don’t think that is the position of the Church.
 
thistle

I am not sure if you are correct or incorrect.

I am searching for the Roman Catholic teaching.

However, in Revelation star meant angel.

Believe me, I plan to stay faithful to the Roman Catholic teachings.

Honestly, thank you for your help.

Is there a teaching that this goes against?

Again: Thank you!

Oh, I plan to go slow and carefully.

I plan to be orthodox in by faith.
 
Seamus_Sully said:
thistle

I am not sure if you are correct or incorrect.

I am searching for the Roman Catholic teaching.

However, in Revelation star meant angel.

Believe me, I plan to stay faithful to the Roman Catholic teachings.

Honestly, thank you for your help.

Is there a teaching that this goes against?

Again: Thank you!

Oh, I plan to go slow and carefully.

I plan to be orthodox in by faith.
Click to expand...
I don’t know the correct answer. I can only say that in all the years of being a Catholic (since 1991) I have never heard any priest offer any interpretation (during homilies, discussions etc) of the shepherds, for example, being anything than real shepherds.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

The senses of Scripture

115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”
117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.
  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction.”
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.
118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.

119 “It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgment. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God.”
 
The Gospels aren’t exactly full of obscure symbols and mysterious sayings as Revelation is. They aren’t prophetic works, rather historical or semi-historical narratives. Even the parables are mostly interpeted into literality.

I rather believe that when Matthew and Luke say ‘star’ they mean star, and ‘angel’ when they mean angel - likewise ‘shepherd’ and so on.

Otherwise why does Matthew use the one word at some points in his account of the nativity and the other at others? Doesn’t make sense.
 
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