Angel Moroni

[pinay]

Welcome friend!

Howdy ho!

Not really, for example I would say that a literal interpretation of the flood story is more a Protestant phenomenon (although many Catholics probably accept a literal interpretation). For me, this story is in the literary genre of “epic” and constitutes an aetiological narrative which has a basis in some historical event, but which has a primary pedagogical dimension, which reveals some fundamentally essential truth to us.

This wasn’t my point. My point was that everybody suffers from some form of persecution because they believe in X. It is an experience shared by all Christians including the Savior Himself. It would be cool if we remain as the ones being persecuted and not the ones abetting in the persecution. Make sense?

It’s not just that, is it? I mean polygamy contradicts Christ’s own teachings.
Consider the practice of tithing, the key text in Old Testament passage where tithing (the practice of donating 10% of one’s income for religious use) is discussed, God says: “you shall turn [your tithe] into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses, and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household” (Deut. 14:25-26). We’re also told, “Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more” (Prov. 31:6–7).

Often when founders of new religions get an idea, they take it to an extreme. So Joseph Smith confused the misuse of wine with its legitimate use. The Bible does condemn excessive drinking (1 Cor. 5:11; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:18; 1 Pet. 4:3), but the key here is the adjective “excessive.” This is why Paul says Church leaders must not be addicted to wine (1 Tim. 3:8).

When Hinckley refers to the “evils of alcohol,” he gets it wrong. Alcohol itself is not evil, but the misuse of it is, just as a hammer, which can be used to pound in nails, can be misused to pound in skulls.

No. That really isn’t it. A religion doesn’t become un-Christian just because they abstain from alcohol or because they pay tithes. Catholics still consider Protestants Christians even if they allow divorce, etc. A church becomes un-Christian according to the Catholic Church because they don’t share the same belief on the essence of Jesus Christ.

 

[FightingFat]

No. That really isn’t it. A religion doesn’t become un-Christian just because they abstain from alcohol or because they pay tithes. Catholics still consider Protestants Christians even if they allow divorce, etc. A church becomes un-Christian according to the Catholic Church because they don’t share the same belief on the essence of Jesus Christ.

Protestants don’t believe the same thing about the essence of Jesus Christ as Catholics.

 

[JeanMichel]

another Good question! also it isn’t anywhere in the Bible( you know, the one holy true book…hey I didn’t say it, Jesus did!)

Where did Jesus say that? At the time of Jesus the Bible did not exist nor would it exist for hundreds of years.

 

[JeanMichel]

Welcome friend! Not really, for example I would say that a literal interpretation of the flood story is more a Protestant phenomenon (although many Catholics probably accept a literal interpretation). For me, this story is in the literary genre of “epic” and constitutes an aetiological narrative which has a basis in some historical event, but which has a primary pedagogical dimension, which reveals some fundamentally essential truth to us.

It’s not just that, is it? I mean polygamy contradicts Christ’s own teachings.
Consider the practice of tithing, the key text in Old Testament passage where tithing (the practice of donating 10% of one’s income for religious use) is discussed, God says: “you shall turn [your tithe] into money, and bind up the money in your hand, and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses, and spend the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household” (Deut. 14:25-26). We’re also told, “Give strong drink to him who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty, and remember their misery no more” (Prov. 31:6–7).

Often when founders of new religions get an idea, they take it to an extreme. So Joseph Smith confused the misuse of wine with its legitimate use. The Bible does condemn excessive drinking (1 Cor. 5:11; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:18; 1 Pet. 4:3), but the key here is the adjective “excessive.” This is why Paul says Church leaders must not be addicted to wine (1 Tim. 3:8).

When Hinckley refers to the “evils of alcohol,” he gets it wrong. Alcohol itself is not evil, but the misuse of it is, just as a hammer, which can be used to pound in nails, can be misused to pound in skulls.

There is some confusion here. Smith never said alcohol was forbidden. Mormons believe he had a revelation called the “Word of Wisdom”, a proscription for a healthy way of living. What the Word of Wisdom says is not to drink alcohol so that the weakest among you do not fall i.e. choose not to drink so that others who cannot control their consumption do not fall. The Word of Wisdom did not become an absolute requirement for Mormons until around 1910.

The evils of alcohol referred to by Hinckley are the same evils that have been recognized for the last 100 years; people abuse it and its abuse has caused untold misery in the lives of families since men started to abuse it.

What would you say was so important in the “epic” of the flood that we should learn? When do we get to choose which Biblical story is an epic and which is true?

Where does Jesus condemn polygamy in the Bible? I have never read such a verse and would be very interested in such a statement.

 

[pinay]

Protestants don’t believe the same thing about the essence of Jesus Christ as Catholics.

Yes they do. All of them subscribe to the Trinitarian view of God. Three persons, One God. Through whom all things were made. With Jesus Christ as the Savior.

And yes, they are all embraced by Catholics as Christians… sometimes to the point where Catholics prefer to be labeled Catholics instead of Christians to differentiate themselves from the Protestants.

 

[SteveVH]

And one last thing - Catholics do not consider LDS Christian because LDS is not Trinitarian. Yep. It’s really as simple as that.

Well, its not really as simple as that.

Your entire concept of divinity, eternity, salvation, heaven, pre-existent “intelligences”, pre-existent matter, angels, man, the nature of God… and the list goes on, are all reasons why Mormonism is considered an entirely different religion masked in Christian terms.

 

[DaveBj]

Wow, I’m the first LDS poster on this thread!

Okay, I’m not going to say much because, an explanation of who Moroni is will only make sense if one has at least a modicrum of acceptance that the claims of the Book of Mormon could be possibly - even with just one iota of possibility - be authentic.

snip

Can you at least tell us what the name means, and in what language? This language geek wants to know.

DaveBj

 

[pablope]

Wow, I’m the first LDS poster on this thread!

Okay, I’m not going to say much because, an explanation of who Moroni is will only make sense if one has at least a modicrum of acceptance that the claims of the Book of Mormon could be possibly - even with just one iota of possibility - be authentic.

So that, the Angel Gabriel is man and so is the Angel Michael, Raphael, etc. etc.

Okay, ready for some head-spin?

nd one last thing - Catholics do not consider LDS Christian because LDS is not Trinitarian. Yep. It’s really as simple as that.

**

Michael - the archangel - is Adam. Yeah, from Adam and Eve.

**

Huh…are you sure this is LDS belief? I read somewhere before that Jesus is a reincarnation of Michael the Archangel.

Did the LDS change their belief or teaching? Could you provide the official LDS stand or teaching on this for clarification?

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

Yes they do. All of them subscribe to the Trinitarian view of God. Three persons, One God. Through whom all things were made. With Jesus Christ as the Savior.

And yes, they are all embraced by Catholics as Christians… sometimes to the point where Catholics prefer to be labeled Catholics instead of Christians to differentiate themselves from the Protestants.

You speak with such confidence. Yet you speak falsehoods. It’s as if your mind is closed to knowledge and the possibility of limitless variations and that things are not black and white. There is something wrong with speaking false absolutes so confidently in the face of truth.

No, “they” don’t. Go look up a protestant Unitarian church, many of which flourished in New England during the past several centuries. They are not trinitarian. So “they” are not all trinitarians.

We are Christians who belong to the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. “They” MAY call themselves protestants to distinguish themselves.

 

[rmcmullan]

Just go back to the original scripture from the D&C, which is authoratative:

DC 130:5 But there are no angels who minister to this earth but those who do belong or have belonged to it.

LDS believe in the pre-existence, a realm where the spirits of those who will populate the earth live. In LDS theology, the spirit of Man is eternal. The purpose of life here is not only to prove our faitfulness but to get a physical body.

So from the Mormon teachings, angels can be messengers from the pre-existence or who have lived before and are now resurrected. I know this is not the Catholic teaching but it at least allows for it. Apparently, Catholics do not believe that resurrected persons can act as messengers from god. Or something like that?

 

[FightingFat]

Yes they do. All of them subscribe to the Trinitarian view of God. Three persons, One God. Through whom all things were made. With Jesus Christ as the Savior.

No they don’t. The have a different understanding of hypostasis, even if they understand the Trinitarian dimension of God. This is clearly an issue of essence.

There are so many “protestants” with so many differing beliefs it’s hard to keep track of them all frankly. Protestantism = fracture and division.

 

[Marie5890]

---

Huh…are you sure this is LDS belief? I read somewhere before that Jesus is a reincarnation of Michael the Archangel.

Did the LDS change their belief or teaching? Could you provide the official LDS stand or teaching on this for clarification?

LDS belief is that Jehovah is pre-existant Jesus, Michael pre-existant Adam, Gabriel is Noah.

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=9b6dfc3157a6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

It’s Jehovah Witnesses who believe Jesus is Michael.

 

[FightingFat]

Well, its not really as simple as that.

Your entire concept of divinity, eternity, salvation, heaven, pre-existent “intelligences”, pre-existent matter, angels, man, the nature of God… and the list goes on, are all reasons why Mormonism is considered an entirely different religion masked in Christian terms.

 

[pablope]

LDS belief is that Jehovah is pre-existant Jesus, Michael pre-existant Adam, Gabriel is Noah.

lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=9b6dfc3157a6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

It’s Jehovah Witnesses who believe Jesus is Michael.

Thanks, Marie…I must have gotten confused…it is indeed the JWs.

 

[Marie5890]

Thanks, Marie…I must have gotten confused…it is indeed the JWs.

You are Welcome

 

[SnakeMauler]

Wow, I’m the first LDS poster on this thread!

Okay, I’m not going to say much because, an explanation of who Moroni is will only make sense if one has at least a modicrum of acceptance that the claims of the Book of Mormon could be possibly - even with just one iota of possibility - be authentic.

So, I’m only going to address the “Angel” difference between Catholics and LDS.

In Catholicism - Angels are different species from Man and are different spieces from God. God and Man are also different species.
In LDS - Angels are the same species as Man who are also the same species as God… they take “made in His image and likeness” literally.

So that, the Angel Gabriel is man and so is the Angel Michael, Raphael, etc. etc.

Okay, ready for some head-spin? Michael - the archangel - is Adam. Yeah, from Adam and Eve.

So yeah, Moroni was a prophet in the olden days. He appeared to Joseph Smith in the early 1800’s in angelic form.

Oh yeah, LDS angels don’t have wings. And no, Red Bull won’t make a difference.

And no, I don’t expect y’all to believe anything I just wrote.

But, the really interesting thing is - I was just talking to a friend of mine and he says to me - What? Noah put 2 pairs of every living thing inside a big boat? And the entire earth was covered in water? Bull-hokey!

Yeah, y’all know the feeling of somebody poking fun at one’s dearly held beliefs.

And one last thing - Catholics do not consider LDS Christian because LDS is not Trinitarian. Yep. It’s really as simple as that.

Ok, but my question is, is what they’re teaching me in college wrong? That is, I have been taught NOTHING about these Nephites and Jaredite people in the ancient Americas. Am I being taught wrong? Should I quit college and stop being a history major? What?

 

[GTNJNightingale]

I was thinking Italian too. It seems like a lot of things in Italy end in “oni”.

That said, one will not find the Mormons’ angel, Moroni, anywhere else because Mormonism is a man-made religion and the Book of Mormon is false.

I like, so true!

 

[GTNJNightingale]

Did He? Where did He say that?

Does the bible not say we arent alowed to add to it?? or take away from??

 

[flyonthewall]

Does the bible not say we arent alowed to add to it?? or take away from??

Yes, that was in Deuteronomy. There has been a lot of stuff added since then…

 

[campeador]

Some critics claim that there is a suspicious coincidence between the hill Cumorah and the angel Moroni, and the Comoros Islands off the eastern coast of Mozambique, the capital of which is Moroni.