Angel Moroni

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SnakeMauler said:
Ok, but my question is, is what they’re teaching me in college wrong? That is, I have been taught NOTHING about these Nephites and Jaredite people in the ancient Americas. Am I being taught wrong? Should I quit college and stop being a history major? What?🤷
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Snake, of course you should not. The Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon are topics of faith and have nothing to do with history. It has nothing to do with being taught incorrectly or wrong. You also are not taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven in college either; nor are you taught that mankind is the progeny of Adam and Eve. Does this mean you are being taught wrong? No! You cannot mix topics of faith with topics of man’s knowledge.

Continue being a history major and enjoy the ride. However, when it comes to your faith, I would always seek the Holy Spirit, just as Peter did, rather than the knowledge of man.
 
pinay said:
Wow, I’m the first LDS poster on this thread!

Okay, I’m not going to say much because, an explanation of who Moroni is will only make sense if one has at least a modicrum of acceptance that the claims of the Book of Mormon could be possibly - even with just one iota of possibility - be authentic.

[SIGN]oh wow! did you just hear yourself? doesnt that raise any red flags for you? hum…curiouser and curiouser.:confused:[/SIGN]
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JeanMichel said:
Snake, of course you should not. The Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon are topics of faith and have nothing to do with history. It has nothing to do with being taught incorrectly or wrong. You also are not taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven in college either; nor are you taught that mankind is the progeny of Adam and Eve. Does this mean you are being taught wrong? No! You cannot mix topics of faith with topics of man’s knowledge.

Continue being a history major and enjoy the ride. However, when it comes to your faith, I would always seek the Holy Spirit, just as Peter did, rather than the knowledge of man.
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[SIGN]this is true! but, you CAN find mary in history and you can find her apperitions in history…written by several (i mean several) witnesses.(might i add ,even non catholics have witnessed to seeing her apperitions). also we all know it is a fact of history that a woman named mary was a living person and that she had a son named Jesus. now to believe in her being the queen of heaven takes faith. but there are certainly evedances that can be found and create a foundation for forming this faith. can you really say the same for nephites and lamenites? i mean any real evedances for it? [/SIGN]
 
Pax_in_Veritate said:
You speak with such confidence. Yet you speak falsehoods. It’s as if your mind is closed to knowledge and the possibility of limitless variations and that things are not black and white. There is something wrong with speaking false absolutes so confidently in the face of truth.

No, “they” don’t. Go look up a protestant Unitarian church, many of which flourished in New England during the past several centuries. They are not trinitarian. So “they” are not all trinitarians.

We are Christians who belong to the Catholic Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself. “They” MAY call themselves protestants to distinguish themselves.
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:clapping:
 
JeanMichel said:
Snake, of course you should not. The Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon are topics of faith and have nothing to do with history. It has nothing to do with being taught incorrectly or wrong. You also are not taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven in college either; nor are you taught that mankind is the progeny of Adam and Eve. Does this mean you are being taught wrong? No! You cannot mix topics of faith with topics of man’s knowledge.

Continue being a history major and enjoy the ride. However, when it comes to your faith, I would always seek the Holy Spirit, just as Peter did, rather than the knowledge of man.
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Actually Jean, any competent anthropology/biology prof has no proper recourse anymore other than to admit mankind is descended from a single pair of parents. Adam and Eve. In fact when I was in school and they had just discovered the fact our prof referred to the female as ancestral Eve.
 
JeanMichel said:
Snake, of course you should not. The Mormon Church and the Book of Mormon are topics of faith and have nothing to do with history. It has nothing to do with being taught incorrectly or wrong. You also are not taught that Mary is the Queen of Heaven in college either; nor are you taught that mankind is the progeny of Adam and Eve. Does this mean you are being taught wrong? No! You cannot mix topics of faith with topics of man’s knowledge.

Continue being a history major and enjoy the ride. However, when it comes to your faith, I would always seek the Holy Spirit, just as Peter did, rather than the knowledge of man.
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Except that history, true history, cannot conflict with faith. History would teach us about the Jews, that Jesus was a historic figure, that Rome occupied Israel, that Christians were fed to the lions, etc. The fact is there is plenty of historical evidence that goes along with what is taught in Christianity. There is zero historical evidence for what is taught in the Book of Mormon.
 
SteveVH said:
Except that history, true history, cannot conflict with faith. History would teach us about the Jews, that Jesus was a historic figure, that Rome occupied Israel, that Christians were fed to the lions, etc. The fact is there is plenty of historical evidence that goes along with what is taught in Christianity. There is zero historical evidence for what is taught in the Book of Mormon.
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Exactly. 👍
 
JeanMichel said:
The statement above was just incomplete. Mormons believe that angels are beings that either have not yet come to this earth to take a mortal body, beings that have died, or beings that have died and gained a glorified body.

No, it is not part of the Bible that is corrupt/cannot be trusted completely. Nor does it have anything to do with the Book of Mormon.

It falls more into their “Tradition” or teachings of their prophets.
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As I understand it…all of us are spirit children of God…we are ALL of the same species, just at different levels of “progression”…Moroni was a “resurrected personage”…he shared in the life of Christ and is among the “first fruits” of the resurrection…eventually ALL of us will be resurrected…Moroni just was resurrected sooner…as was Peter, James and John…John’s case is he chose to stay in this world until Christ returns…as did the Three Nephites…they too have glorified bodies…they were not “resurrected” as they did not see death…but were “glorified” by possessing the “resurrected” body of the future resurrection…eventually all of us will receive our “glorified” body…most will die and be resurrected…but some will be changed…such as Elijah and Enoch.
 
Publisher said:
As I understand it…all of us are spirit children of God…we are ALL of the same species, just at different levels of “progression”…Moroni was a “resurrected personage”…he shared in the life of Christ and is among the “first fruits” of the resurrection…eventually ALL of us will be resurrected…Moroni just was resurrected sooner…as was Peter, James and John…John’s case is he chose to stay in this world until Christ returns…as did the Three Nephites…they too have glorified bodies…they were not “resurrected” as they did not see death…but were “glorified” by possessing the “resurrected” body of the future resurrection…eventually all of us will receive our “glorified” body…most will die and be resurrected…but some will be changed…such as Elijah and Enoch.
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Your understanding of this LDS teaching is correct.
 
Stephen168 said:
Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was a history book. A history of where the american aborigines came from. There is no scientific support for that history.
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Joseph Smith has always stated the Book of Mormon is a Testiment of Jesus Christ. It has some history in it but could not be used as a history text book.
Be careful about the scientific part of your statement as there is still no scientific support for many things in the Bible.
 
flyonthewall said:
Joseph Smith has always stated the Book of Mormon is a Testiment of Jesus Christ.
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Do you have a link to that quote? “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” was added in the 1980’s because the Mormon Church wanted to remind Mormons that the Book of Mormon was a ‘witness’ to the mission of Jesus Christ. Claiming the Book of Mormon to be a witness to history is consistent with Joseph Smith’s claim it that it is a history of the american aboriginal people.
 
Stephen168 said:
Do you have a link to that quote? “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” was added in the 1980’s because the Mormon Church wanted to remind Mormons that the Book of Mormon was a ‘witness’ to the mission of Jesus Christ. Claiming the Book of Mormon to be a witness to history is consistent with Joseph Smith’s claim it that it is a history of the american aboriginal people.
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Stephen, do you have a reference that the title “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” was added to “remine” Mormons that it was a witness of Jesus Christ. If anything, I would think it was for the world at large, but I may be mistaken.

One of the curious things about the Book of Mormon is its introduction, which states:
Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

It appears from the very beginning that the book’s purpose was the convincing of all peoples of the earth that Jesus was the Christ. I think you told me you were once Mormon? My family has always talked about this book in this manner and have done so long before 1980. This curious introduction has always been of interest to me and has helped to to better understand who Mormons (and my cousins) are and what their purpose is. It is one of the reasons why I think those who are committed to telling people that Mormons are not Christians do so from ignorance rather than any degree of understanding.
 
JeanMichel said:
My family has always talked about this book in this manner and have done so long before 1980.
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I asked about Joseph Smith calling the Book of Mormon “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” out of curiosity. Too bad you could not provide a link either. When it happened does not change my point.
Stephen168 said:
Claiming the Book of Mormon to be a witness to history is consistent with Joseph Smith’s claim it that it is a history of the american aboriginal people.
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Stephen168 said:
I asked about Joseph Smith calling the Book of Mormon “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” out of curiosity. Too bad you could not provide a link either. When it happened does not change my point.
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JeanMichel:
One of the curious things about the Book of Mormon is its introduction, which states:
Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.
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So the very front of the Book of Mormon, a book which Joseph Smith translated, is not good enough for you?
 
The so-called “other testament of Jesus Christ” isn’t another testament at all. It is blatant plagiarizing from the KJV of the Bible, interspersed with Smith’s & Co. gleanings of other writings and ideas that were contemporary to Smith, but certainly not contemporary to the time, place or culture where the Book Of Mormon is staged.
 
Publisher said:
As I understand it…all of us are spirit children of God…we are ALL of the same species, just at different levels of “progression”…Moroni was a “resurrected personage”…he shared in the life of Christ and is among the “first fruits” of the resurrection…eventually ALL of us will be resurrected…Moroni just was resurrected sooner…as was Peter, James and John…John’s case is he chose to stay in this world until Christ returns…as did the Three Nephites…they too have glorified bodies…they were not “resurrected” as they did not see death…but were “glorified” by possessing the “resurrected” body of the future resurrection…eventually all of us will receive our “glorified” body…most will die and be resurrected…but some will be changed…such as Elijah and Enoch.
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You are walking in some obscure Mormon beliefs of which I have only a limited understanding. Mormons believe in the doctrine of Translation as taught in Hebrews 11:5 as you have stated above. All those who did not taste death and live were Translated such as Henoch (Enoch), James, Elijah, Three Nephites, etc. This seems to be a very select, small group. All others go through the process death and transition to the afterlife.

The concept of the First Resurrection or the fruits there of I am not sure about. Maybe a Mormon could explain, but I think this is an event at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. I am not sure of those few who have been resurrected; maybe they are the first fruits, but were not resurrected, obviously, at the event.

It is my understanding that Translation is only a temporary state and that they will be changed into resurrected beings at the direction of God.

I have often thought what a Mormon thinks when they are in Santiago de Compostela in Spain at the wonderful Cathedral there where St. James is buried?
 
JeanMichel said:
One of the curious things about the Book of Mormon is its introduction, which states:
Wherefore, it is an abridgment of the record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites-Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel…
An abridgment taken from the Book of Ester also, which ** is a record** of the people of Jared, who were scattered at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people, when they were building a tower to get to heaven-Which is to show unto the remnant of the house of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations—And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

It appears from the very beginning that the book’s purpose was the convincing of all peoples of the earth that Jesus was the Christ.
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flyonthewall said:
So the very front of the Book of Mormon, a book which Joseph Smith translated, is not good enough for you?
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Not at all, but I don’t see the word Testament in it. And if it did, it would not change my point.
Stephen168 said:
Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was a history book. A history of where the american aborigines came from. There is no scientific support for that history.
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Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon IS a history. You and JeanMichel are saying that Smith claimed its PURPOSE was to be a witness of Jesus Christ. The deception you and JeanMichel are engaged in is to equate Smith’s claim of PURPOSE for Smith’s claim of what it IS. That is why JeanMichel left out the IS part of the Intro to the Book of Mormon.

The reason the Book of Mormon is not used in SnakeMauler’s history class is because it is a work of fiction; it is not history as Joseph Smith claimed it to be.
 
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