Angel or Human?

[john78]

This is kinda one of those the grass is always greener on the other side…

An i am curious how others here think or feel…

Would you rather be an Angel or stick being Human and have free will ?

Angels supposedly do not have free will, but then the flip side is that they are in heaven serving God, they are with God always,

I envy that personally. I don’t understand why being Human with free will is better than being an angel ? Especially when as a human we are pretty much behind the 8 ball right out the gate and then we still have a big chance of screwing up and turning away from God.

And I can’t even imagine why an Angel would want to be human.

Free will to chose God or not, our Freedom is in Christ, so to not chose Christ or God is really screwing ourselves over, and for what ?

So simple it becomes complicated ?

Why would Angels and Humans have different relationships with God, and then if that isn’t enough, Why is Israel " chosen " over others yet Christ comes to save everyone and calls everyone to Him an God ?

An lastly if there is ever an end all fight between God an Satan, and Michael the Arc angel is will lead that fight, could it be possible to join Michael an the legion of angels in this battle or would humanity have to sit on the sidelines ?

have fun with this thread.

 

[Christine85]

I think Angels do have free will hence the separation between the good and bad Angels. The fallen Angels chose to follow Lucifer, the others the good, chose to submit to God.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I’ll stick to being human because theologically speaking, we are made in God’s image and likeness. I would think that puts us on a rank higher than angels.

Then again, I wouldn’t opt for angel either even if this was more of an artistic/literary question. I mean, white wings and a halo? Ick.

Gimme leather wings, large horns, and fiery breath any day.

 

[Skye_Ariel]

Angels do have free will which is why 1/3 fell and became fallen angels. I think of angels as being very much like us humans except they live in heaven and have perfect bodies and are much older than we are and smarter than we are. I don’t even know if you will be able to tell who’s who in heaven, I think they look like us. As far as wings, all angels don’t have wings, the ones on earth in the Bible looked just like humans. So I really can’t say would I rather be an angel or human because yes angels live in heaven but so will we! We will have perfect bodies in heaven like the angels do too, so it’s really hard to choose because there’s not that big of a difference.

Also I believe we will fight along with the angels in the battle of armageddon which will be the final battle against the fallen angels.

 

[Samson01]

*Only an agent endowed with an intellect can act with a judgment which is free, in so far as it apprehends the common note of goodness; from which it can judge this or the other thing to be good. Consequently, wherever there is intellect, there is free-will. It is therefore manifest that just as there is intellect, so is there free-will in the angels, and in a higher degree of perfection than in man. *

*Reply to Objection 3. Free-will exists in a nobler manner in the higher angels than it does in the lower, as also does the judgment of the intellect. Yet it is true that liberty, in so far as the removal of compulsion is considered, is not susceptible of greater and less degree; because privations and negations are not lessened nor increased directly of themselves; but only by their cause, or through the addition of some qualification. *

newadvent.org/summa/1059.htm

It is said by the Saints that angels long for the gift that is giving to man…the Eucharist.

 

[NeedImprovement]

. . . It is said by the Saints that angels long for the gift that is giving to man…the Eucharist.

Pope St. Pius X - the Pope of the Eucharist :

“If the Angels could envy, they would envy us for Holy Communion.”

Conversely, St John Vianney, Cure of Ars:

" "Ah! if we had the eyes of angels with which to see our Lord Jesus Christ present on the Altar and looking at us, how we should love Him! "

“We ought to ask the Blessed Virgin, the angels, and the saints to pray for us that we may receive the good God as worthily as it is possible for us to receive him.”
[Sermon on Holy Communion]

catholictradition.org/Eucharist/most-blessedtext.htm

7dolors.com/angelsamongus.htm

Let’s not forget Saint Faustina either:

“When Sister Faustina saw Saint Michael the Archangel, he said to her: The Lord has ordered me to take special care of you. Know that you are hated by evil but do not fear. Who is like God (Diary, 706). We find Saint Michael in the lives of many saints such as saint Padre Pio. They encourage us to be under his protection and to pray to Him. When our community went to Rome to see the father John Paul II he said to us: The prayer to Saint Michael written by Leon XIII is very powerful. Pray it often to teach others how to pray it. We should take advantage of this prayer in our everyday life. Together with the angels we are taking part in this Holy Mass. Saint Faustina wrote: If the angels were capable of envy, they would envy two things – one is suffering, the other is receiving the Holy Communion. So welcome Jesus who is coming to us in his Body and Blood.”

The Angels, Messengers From a Loving God

We commonly think of the definition of the word angel in terms of its Greek origin angelos, (messenger) . Yet the bible seems to indicate in some locations that they themselves, view their ministry - as it pertains to us, from a more fraternal perspective :

Revelation 12:10-11

Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night.

They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.

Revelation 19:9-10

Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”

I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t! I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brothers who bear witness to Jesus. Worship God. Witness to Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Blessed Cardinal John Henry Newman calls his own guardian Angel, “brother of my soul.”

I think perhaps it may be because the good Angels don’t envy us, that the OP may have confused this with not having an absolutely free will ( or was he implying an absolutely human will ] ). But as we have read, the evil ones do hate us. The differece is that for them (angels), as far as we can imperfectly tell, the choice to love or not would seem to have been/to be, one definitive eternal act.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I don’t want to be an angel. If I have to become one sometime, I’ll make the best of it.

Meanwhile, I like human drama. For me, it’s what life is about.

And I don’t envy angels for being with God all the time. We are with God all the time, too, even if only few of us realize it or admit to it. But I can see it, it’s wonderful, and I wouldn’t want the world to be any different than it is. Except maybe a mystery deposit in my bank account would be kind of nice.

I do have respect for angels, though. They give me the only statistically likely reason I’m still alive today.

Alan

 

[Sarcelle]

I wish I was an angel. I would then be in heaven enjoying the beatific vision instead of muddling my way here on earth all alone, since members of my immediate family are atheists.

 

[FCEGM]

This is kinda one of those the grass is always greener on the other side…

An i am curious how others here think or feel…

Would you rather be an Angel or stick being Human and have free will ?

Angels supposedly do not have free will, but then the flip side is that they are in heaven serving God, they are with God always,

I envy that personally.

There is nothing to envy since the angels employed free will to choose for or against God. Being purely spiritual, the Angels immediately and freely intuited for or against Him - this before having the Beatific Vision which was given to the good angels at the moment of their choice.

Why is Israel " chosen " over others yet Christ comes to save everyone and calls everyone to Him an God ?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9099681&postcount=7

 

[Zeno11]

For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”? (Hebrews 1:5) and through Jesus we also become sons and daughters of God.

 

[BluesPicker]

I’ll stick to being human because theologically speaking, we are made in God’s image and likeness. I would think that puts us on a rank higher than angels.

Then again, I wouldn’t opt for angel either even if this was more of an artistic/literary question. I mean, white wings and a halo? Ick.

Gimme leather wings, large horns, and fiery breath any day.

  LW,  I know think you want the bat wings, goat horns & Dragon breath  but unfortunately you are going to Heaven and getting your angel wings & a little gold harp and a little halo.  You will take the form of a fat little baby  Cherub and sing praises all the eternal day.   I can see you now flitting and dancing from cloud to cloud singing praises, writing proverbs & psalms.  There are so many praying for you & offering penances, Masses etc.etc.  your name is recorded in the Book of  LIfe.    Now you will not be an angel angel but an angelic soul because at some point you will choose God in a big way.

This is all by the Power of Prayer but most importantly the Good Shepherd is not going to let you go. I saw all this in a dream after praying for you several times. Oh you kinda look like that little angel with the bow & arrow of love for Valentine’s day. I know this sounds silly but it gave me great relief & joy because it shows how Great Jesus Christ truly is and concerned for the Salvation of each one of us.

   Of  course angels have free will but once they chose to be obedient  to God or to side with Satan  they became confirmed in their choices.

  The Holy Angels chose to obey God and became engaged in the Beatified View of God and were united to God.  They no longer have doubt or worries nor can do no wrong or evil because they are filled with Divine Love.

  Satan & his group rejected God's Plan.

How God Tested the Angels

Merry Christmas,
BP, Spiritual Warfare Type, small soldier but on winning Team

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

LW, I know think you want the bat wings, goat horns & Dragon breath but unfortunately you are going to Heaven and getting your angel wings & a little gold harp and a little halo. You will take the form of a fat little baby Cherub and sing praises all the eternal day. I can see you now flitting and dancing from cloud to cloud singing praises, writing proverbs & psalms. There are so many praying for you & offering penances, Masses etc.etc. your name is recorded in the Book of LIfe. Now you will not be an angel angel but an angelic soul because at some point you will choose God in a big way.
This is all by the Power of Prayer but most importantly the Good Shepherd is not going to let you go. I saw all this in a dream after praying for you several times. Oh you kinda look like that little angel with the bow & arrow of love for Valentine’s day. I know this sounds silly but it gave me great relief & joy because it shows how Great Jesus Christ truly is and concerned for the Salvation of each one of us.

Like I said, ick. (Not to mention, you don’t even know what I look like so I you’re obviously not serious. )

And by power of my prayer I’m sure the Creator understands that my preferences are aesthetic, not theological.

Heck, speaking of theological, you’re little vision isn’t all that accurate either. Valentine’s cherubs are the constructs of medieval artists. The same with the red satyrs you call devils. They exist but they’re not really hung up on what they look like.

With that said, here’s my message to God for your next dream: “Dear God, make me look like this with matching wings of leather, not feather. Thank You.”

 

[NeedImprovement]

LOL . . .

Maybe we should start a “pessimist’s thread” or “cynic’s thread” with a rule where everybody gets a chance to take the air out of someone else’s balloon.

. . . . . .

BluesPicker:

. . . but unfortunately you are going to Heaven and getting your angel wings & a little gold harp and a little halo. You will take the form of a fat little baby Cherub and sing praises all the eternal day. . .

What we should emphasize, is that the above scenario does not bode well for any blues players either- at all. Being a player myself, that makes me a little uneasy. Try considering this a moment :

• Does anybody really believe they’re going to be allowed to bend any notes on that little gold harp . . .? . . . They probably wont even permit a pentatonic scale to be played because people will either confuse it with the pentateuch or maybe even a pentagram.
• You think anyone will be even singing the blues in Heaven . . . ? :dts: . . . Book of Revelation seals the deal:

Rev 21:4
**He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, (for) the old order has passed away." **

• So, best advice for all blues players is to get to bending them notes ♪ ♫ right away without counting the callus ,
• Maybe even do a little *open tuning *before the matter becomes closed ;before that final slide up the big fretboard of life,
• We need to take our cue from the likes of greats Muddy Waters, Albert King and John Lee Hooker and get our licks in (our riffs too) while there’s still time.
• Looks like we’re all going to have to change our tune. . . Wouldn’t hurt to make a note ♪ of it .

• “Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly”.

 

[BluesPicker]

LOL . . .

Maybe we should start a “pessimist’s thread” or “cynic’s thread” with a rule where everybody gets a chance to take the air out of someone else’s balloon.

. . . . . .

What we should emphasize, is that the above scenario does not bode well for any blues players either- at all. Being a player myself, that makes me a little uneasy. Try considering this a moment :

• Does anybody really believe they’re going to be allowed to bend any notes on that little gold harp . . .? . . . They probably wont even permit a pentatonic scale to be played because people will either confuse it with the pentateuch or maybe even a pentagram.
• You think anyone will be even singing the blues in Heaven . . . ? :dts: . . . Book of Revelation seals the deal:
• So, best advice for all blues players is to get to bending them notes ♪ ♫ right away without counting the callus ,
• Maybe even do a little *open tuning *before the matter becomes closed ;before that final slide up the big fretboard of life,
• We need to take our cue from the likes of greats Muddy Waters, Albert King and John Lee Hooker and get our licks in (our riffs too) while there’s still time.
• Looks like we’re all going to have to change our tune. . . Wouldn’t hurt to make a note ♪ of it .

• “Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly”.

  My favorite Bluesman is a Gospel Bluesman named  Blind Willy Johnston.  His mother died when  Willy was just a 2-4 years old (don't remember exactly).  He wanted to be a preacher  at this tender age.  His father married a woman who in a fit of demonic rage threw lye to Willy's eyes & face.  Blinded he learned the Bible and composed Gospel Blues songs.  He wrote a song called "Dark is the Night Cold is the Ground" in which he attempted to express  the Passion of  Jesus Christ.  Willy's house was damaged by fire and  he froze to death one cold night there after being exposed to the winter elements. All of Willy's songs had Gospel themes.

   I  am very much against guitar music in Church or even any instrument other than the human voice.  But  I like to play music on Sundays for the glory of God.   I like fingerstyle Blues picking and  bottleneck slides.  A don't like many of the profane themes of the Blues other than man overcoming evil in the light of Christ.

Merry Christmas,
BP.

 

[Sarcelle]

My favorite Bluesman is a Gospel Bluesman named Blind Willy Johnston. His mother died when Willy was just a 2-4 years old (don’t remember exactly). He wanted to be a preacher at this tender age. His father married a woman who in a fit of demonic rage threw lye to Willy’s eyes & face. Blinded he learned the Bible and composed Gospel Blues songs. He wrote a song called “Dark is the Night Cold is the Ground” in which he attempted to express the Passion of Jesus Christ. Willy’s house was damaged by fire and he froze to death one cold night there after being exposed to the winter elements. All of Willy’s songs had Gospel themes.

   I  am very much against guitar music in Church or even any instrument other than the human voice.  But  I like to play music on Sundays for the glory of God.   I like fingerstyle Blues picking and  bottleneck slides.  A don't like many of the profane themes of the Blues other than man overcoming evil in the light of Christ.

Merry Christmas,
BP.

I used to go to the Church of Christ which is non-instrumental. I still prefer the absence of instruments in the Church as I firmly believe that the human voice is the most beautiful sounding instrument.

Disclaimer: This is my opinion only so if you disagree then I understand.

Now back to angels, the holy angels can be very intimidating, since their opening statement usually is “Do not fear.” I don’t think you see fat babies, harps or white wings.

It is deplorable that the Victorians have taken previously intimidating creatures such as angels and fairies and made them icons of female beauty. Very sentimental of them.

 

[NeedImprovement]

One blues song relating to our Blessed Lord’s Passion which stands out to me is Were You There - even made it into the CBW . Some people will say it’s Gospel, but the roots are definitely Blues - as in so much Gospel music.

The first time I ever heard it performed , was in a darkened St. Patrick’s Cathedral, Ottawa Ont., at 3:00 pm on Good Friday , to begin their Good Friday service. There was one singer with a strong voice in the choir loft and there were absolutely zero instruments . . . “awesome” might be an understatement in trying to describe its effect.

Although recent history unfortunately demonstrates that some of the more famous musicians (some with blues roots) were prone to becoming victims of what the industry had turned them into , I still thought Jimi Hendrix’s perspective may not have been too far off in his mind’s image of an Angel. In his song entitled simply* Angel * , rather than as a

a fat little baby Cherub

Jimi Hendrix describes the Angel who came to rescue him as

" Silver wings silouhetted against a child’s sunrise "

In the book My Way of Life - The Summa Simplified For Everyone [excerpts from pp 65,66,67 the authors say :

They are so much more like God than we are that their whole being reflects something of the divine eternity, immortality, independence. Angels are neither old or young, sick or healthy, men or women, infants or ancients, tall or short, fat or thin ; they are bright flames of life, unflickering, unfading , indestructible flames that are fed by nothing but God.

The princely dignity of Gabriel standing before Our Lady, the easy competence of Raphael protecting the young Tobias, the majesty of Michael with his flaming sword . . . gives us some little vision of the nobility of angels. We are in danger of blinding ourselves to that vision if we forget that these were angels stooping to our limitations, bowing to our penchant for thinking in pictures . . .

Not even a child is puzzled about how an angel gets its clothes on over such huge wings ; for it is clear to everyone that the wings we give to angels are a symbol and nothing more. The swift flight of a bird contrasted with the trudging step of a man is a fitting symbol of smooth, untrammeled rapid movement, and so a centuries-old expression of the celerity of angelic passage.

*

 

[Skye_Ariel]

I think everyone will be so caught up in the culture of Heaven that we won’t even miss the things of earth that we like right now. The instruments and music of Heaven will be much better than what we know of as beautiful music here on earth. The way people become Americanized after living here, we will become heavenized. LOL!