Angelology: The Nine Choirs

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Wm777

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Am looking for credible resources on
The Nine Choirs of Angels…
Specifically - if it’s even humanly possible -
details on each choir…

I mean, it’s easy to know what the nine choirs are, but
somehow someone somewhere someway sometime
had to discern there are nine of them;
and, then, someone else had to agree with them…

To boot…

What about the fallen angels?
Are they like a tenth category called “demons”,
or did demons fall from the nine choirs, and
then just end up in hell?

That would seem to make sense.

Saint Paul says that some of the angels
were at odds with humans, until Jesus came along…
It seems to mean - long before humans were around,
the angels fell, but there were still some edgy ones left…
who - after we humans showed up - didn’t like us…
Then, when Jesus Himself took on the form of human-likelness,
they had to humbly submit to being helpful to us…

Saint Paul says they came from different choirs - I think the Powers,
Principalities and Dominions were some of the grumpy ones,
if I remember correctly…

Anyway, I’m just wondering how all that stuff was figured out…

Wm
 
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Wm777 said:
Am looking for credible resources on
The Nine Choirs of Angels…
Specifically - if it’s even humanly possible -
details on each choir…

I mean, it’s easy to know what the nine choirs are, but
somehow someone somewhere someway sometime
had to discern there are nine of them;
and, then, someone else had to agree with them…

To boot…

What about the fallen angels?
Are they like a tenth category called “demons”,
or did demons fall from the nine choirs, and
then just end up in hell?

That would seem to make sense.

Saint Paul says that some of the angels
were at odds with humans, until Jesus came along…
It seems to mean - long before humans were around,
the angels fell, but there were still some edgy ones left…
who - after we humans showed up - didn’t like us…
Then, when Jesus Himself took on the form of human-likelness,
they had to humbly submit to being helpful to us…

Saint Paul says they came from different choirs - I think the Powers,
Principalities and Dominions were some of the grumpy ones,
if I remember correctly…

Anyway, I’m just wondering how all that stuff was figured out…

Wm
Click to expand...
It’s been understood for a really long time (since before St Aquinas) that those parts of scripture are referring to persons (i.e. angels).

Angels can be oppositional either seemingly or literally. Demons literally hate God, us, themselves, and everything else, but sometimes angels are used as objects of justice. For example, the angel at Fatima had his sword lifted over the world to show the just punishment for mankind’s sins, but then Mary was also there to shield us from the sword. This demonstrated that God’s mercy surpasses his justice. The angel yelled out “Penance!” and his sword was held back.

We don’t know about the exact nature of the choirs except for some insight through private revelation. The Chaplet of St Michael the Archangel involves petition to each choir of angels along with an Our Father and three Hail Mary’s in honor of each choir. The petition to the Seraphim is for the fire of charity; to the Cherubim for perfection; to the Thrones for humility; to the Dominions for governing senses and subduing passion; to the Powers for subduing the devil; to the Virtues for subduing our internal evil nature; to the Principalities for obedience; to the Archangels for perseverance; to the Angels for protection and to be safely conducted to Heaven.

Many of the Church Fathers concluded that the many references of God with men in the Old Testament was either St Michael or another angel standing in the place of the Lord. For example, it was believed that when the patriarch Jacob wrestled with God, it was done through St Michael. And that it was St Michael (or another angel) who walked with Adam and Eve.

We know for a fact that angels exist and that they are ministering spirits. They carry out God’s power in many different ways.
 
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Errrmmm… Thank you… I really do appreciate and welcome all feedback possible… But it might help if I describe why I am seeking the info I requested…

I’m a musician and a composer, and - I am working on a general “composited” piece - supported by smaller pieces, where each smaller, supporting piece is dedicated to each of the nine choirs. The method of composition could be done several different ways, but what I really need is some way to identify the qualities and characteristics that differentiate each of the nine choirs. I strayed from that a bit in my general sense of wonder and curiosity, but you see now what I mean?

This is actually very hard. Some people have been known to ask angels their names, and the best they can get is, “It’s wonderful that you asked…” This is because there’s something about an angel’s name that is astonishingly above human comprehension. To identify a word or prayer worthy of an angel is (for a human) said to be difficult to do, so I can only - at best - dote upon the notion…

But the music itself is intended to be prayerful, and it seems important to be able to direct it to the right choirs, if its even possible. That said, I’m just trying to find adjectives, descriptions, etc, to try to point the listener to… if that makes any sense… 🙂

Thank you very much for your contribution!!!

Wm
 
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btw, I am glad you reminded me of the Chaplet of Saint Michael… 🙂 I used to follow Mother Angelica saying it on EWTN awhile back, but I haven’t watched EWTN for awhile… Anymore, I just go to church… 🙂

But it’s a great chaplet and a good resource to draw from… Thank you again! 🙂
 
Wm777 said:
Am looking for credible resources on
The Nine Choirs of Angels…
Specifically - if it’s even humanly possible -
details on each choir…

I mean, it’s easy to know what the nine choirs are, but
somehow someone somewhere someway sometime
had to discern there are nine of them;
and, then, someone else had to agree with them…

To boot…

What about the fallen angels?
Are they like a tenth category called “demons”,
or did demons fall from the nine choirs, and
then just end up in hell?

That would seem to make sense.

Saint Paul says that some of the angels
were at odds with humans, until Jesus came along…
It seems to mean - long before humans were around,
the angels fell, but there were still some edgy ones left…
who - after we humans showed up - didn’t like us…
Then, when Jesus Himself took on the form of human-likelness,
they had to humbly submit to being helpful to us…

Saint Paul says they came from different choirs - I think the Powers,
Principalities and Dominions were some of the grumpy ones,
if I remember correctly…

Anyway, I’m just wondering how all that stuff was figured out…

Wm
Click to expand...
CHAPLET OF
ST. MICHAEL ARCHANGEL

One day, Saint Michael the Archangel appeared to Antonia d’Astonac, a most devout Servant of God and told her that he wished to be honoured by nine salutations corresponding to the nine Choirs of Angels, which should consist of one Our Father and three Hail Marys in honour of each of the Angelic Choirs.

https://www.catholicdoors.com/prayers/chaplets/chap08.htm
 
There are only three names of the angels that the Catholic Church recognizes; Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas, known as the Angelic Doctor for his classification and explanations of Angels, state that there are three hierarchies of angels, and within each of the hierarchies, there are three orders of angles. Thus there are not nine specific types of angels, but rather three ways of looking and classifying angels and within each of those ways, there are three types of angels. St. Thomas uses the analogy of the beginning, middle, and end of the work being done by each hierarchy of angel. He also expresses that each angel is a unique creation and holds a specific mission. They can only be grouped into hierarchies and orders through similarities in their missions and work. Their name is their identity. It encompasses the entirety of their being and mission for which they were created. It is thus that it can be said that an angel’s name is unknowable because we, as material creatures, cannot comprehend the totality of the spiritual being that is an angel. We can only comprehend what is revealed to us. This is why Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael are so important. The totality of their existence has been revealed to us in their name, whether we can fully comprehend it or not. Michael which means “Who is like God?” exhibits the immensity and power of God and the humbling nature of comparison of the Creator and His creation. Gabriel which means “God is my strength!” exhibits the power of God in action, overcoming every physical limitation through spiritual reality and might. It is thus that Gabriel announces the coming of the Divine through the weakest of creatures, a newborn. Raphael which means “God Heals!” exhibits the overcoming of fault and failure brought about by sin through the coming of God’s power. God wounds through justice man imposes upon himself, but Raphael heralds the coming of healing through mercy.

I think the best example to use for the angels so as to clarify their roles is a musical analogy.
 
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The first hierarchy is Seraphim, Cherubim and Thrones - These are concerned with the reception of divine knowledge.
  1. Seraphim- These are those angels who directly receive the divine knowledge, power, wisdom, mercy, etc. from God, Himself. They are in perpetual blissful contemplation of God, observing only that perfect aspect which they were created to behold. The Seraphim cannot be separated from this contemplation of God, as it would negate their purpose, their name, their existence. These are the ones who first are able to hear and describe the experience.
  2. Cherubim - These are those angels who receive the deposit of perfection from the Seraphim who behold God and enact that perfection within their existence. It is this enaction which is the primary participation in an aspect of God’s goodness. It is perfect in that single aspect, but only through participation in the perfection of God. These are the those who take that experience of the Seraphim of hearing and try to make sound themselves.
  3. Thrones - These are those angels who convey the perfect enaction of the Cherubim to others, they are true “angels” in the sense that they are messengers of that perfected divine wisdom. These hear that sound can, in fact, be created and relay that ability to others.
Now, within the first Hierarchy, all angels may be called Thrones. Without Seraphim to behold the perfection of God, that perfection may not be enacted. Without the Cherubim, that enaction of the perfection of God may not be transmitted to others. The only times we revert to describing an angel as a Throne is when we cannot rightly classify them as Seraphim or Cherubim.

The second hierarcy, Dominions, Virtues and Powers refers to the governance and order of Creation. These all are at the same level as Thrones, and indeed may be considered classifications within the order of Thrones which do not belong to Seraphim or Cherubim
  1. Dominions (Dominations) - These Angels ordain how the perfections enacted by the Cherubim may be enacted in the individual creation. These angels understand that sound can be made and direct that sound to be made in a certain way, a symphony.
  2. Virtues - these are given the power to carry out what has been commanded, that is, how to enable the distribution of these perfections, these graces. These are those who then understand the symphony created by the Dominions and write it down so people can play it the way it is intended to be played.
  3. Powers - these are the angels who actually distribute and enact the perfections in the creatures. These are those angels who actually make the symphony a reality.
 
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The third hierarchy, Principalities, Archangels, and Angels, are to the order of Powers as the second hierarchy is to the order of Thrones. This hierarchy pertains to those angels who actually do the distribution of of the grace, the perfections.
  1. Principalities - these are the ones who conduct each individual enaction of the perfection relayed by the Virtues. These are the conductors of the symphony. Those under the conductor know what is to be played but the conductor is there to direct them how it is to be played.
  2. Archangels - these are the ones behind the enaction of the perfection of the individual event. These are the musicians who play the instruments.
  3. Angels - these are the ones who receive the grace and perfection from the archangels and apply it to the individual. These are the order of our Guardian Angels. These angels are the instruments which make the sound.
While there may be many orders above the Archangels, the Archangels are the first who enact the perfection they convey in the world. While the conductor may direct the symphony and is present at the concert, he or she does not make a sound. It is the Archangels, the musicians who are the ones ultimately bringing the symphony to the physical world. As such, certain archangels, depending upon the gravity of their mission and purpose, may be exhaled above all other angels with regard to man. This is akin to famous musicians being more lauded than the composers who write their music or the conductor who molds the symphony because of the skill they play with.

The info above is from St. Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologiae, Part I, Question 108 (primarily Article 6)

Hope this helped. I’ll be praying for you. I hope your composition turns out well.

God Bless,
Br. Ben, CRM

P.S. Sorry for the long post
 
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Hildegard of Bingen 1098-1179 is one who wrote musical compositions, opera’s and Gregorian Chants. She was an Benedictine Abbess in the Rhineland area of Germany. She has many writings on angels.

Dionysius the Areopagite

St. Thomas Aquinas

The above are Author’s who wrote extensively on angels, which hold true today.

Don’t be mislead by the title “Choir” that is given to the diverse categories of Angelic beings. They don’t all give glory to God by singing and praising as in a Choir, other Choir’s of Angels have different functions that give glory and praise to God.

In the Liturgical Mass, we participate in the heavenly Choir of Angels, especially in the responsorial Pslams.
 
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Read St Thomas Aquinas’ Summa Theologica, First Part, Question 108 on ‘The angelic degrees of hierarchies and orders’ and Question 109 on ‘The ordering of the bad angels.’ Here you will find Aquinas’ treatment of this as well as what he inherited from the teaching of the Fathers of the Church and what is set down in Holy Scripture.

Link to Summa Theologica:
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1.htm

First Part. Scroll down to ‘The Government of Creatures’, go to question 108.
 
Some composer’s divide their song into different parts. Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata has different moods in the three movements he made.
 
Wm777 said:
What about the fallen angels?
Are they like a tenth category called “demons”,
or did demons fall from the nine choirs, and
then just end up in hell?
Click to expand...
Thy fell from from the choirs that they were originally in.
 
Oh, I dont mind the long post at all… 🙂 I am very glad you sent it to me, as it contains a lot of helpful food for thought on what I am myself trying to do…

Thank you again for sharing! 🙂
 
I found an interesting distinction here between the CCC, Augustine and Thomism.
CCC 329 St. Augustine says: "‘ANGEL’ is the name of their OFFICE, not of their nature. IF YOU SEEK THE NAME OF THEIR NATURE, IT IS ‘SPIRIT’; if you seek the name of their office, it is ‘angel’: FROM WHAT THEY ARE, ‘SPIRIT’, FROM WHAT THEY DO, ‘ANGEL.’"188 With their whole beings the angels are servants and messengers of God. Because they “always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven” they are the “mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word”.189
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When you look at the CCC’s Augustinian quote the term “Office” (not really heirarchy or choir) jumps out… but, when I contemplate CRM_Bro’s Thomist quotes in light of the Augustine’s “office concept”, the hierarchies an choirs almost sounds less like a syphony, and more like a governmental structure - as in a series of political offices…

To boot, the idea of spirituality is also set in relief… The Angel as an Office (whether it be a Seraph, Cherub… Dominion… Archangel… etc) is a fixed position; whereas the “spirit” is the nature - in a human sense, perhaps like the person who holds an office office. I dont know I would say that’s a 100% perfect interpretation, but - “spirit” - i.e. like air which inspires ones lungs, does breathe life into our lungs, like our voice does to words, or a musicians breath to the sound a flute makes…
 
The (dictionary) definition of office may also be worth considering… because - when you contemplate that an official in office is performing some sort of operation or function… it gives rise to the angel’s role with respect to responsibility and duty… which is interesting when one considers “faith is mans response to God’s word”…
of·fice
/ˈôfis,ˈäfis/
noun: office; plural noun: offices; noun: Divine Office; plural noun: Divine Offices
Code: 
1. a room, set of rooms, or building used as a place for commercial, professional, or bureaucratic work.
"computers first appeared in offices in the late 1970s"
synonyms:	place of work, place of business, workplace; More
headquarters, base;
workroom, studio, workspace, cubicle;
informalsalt mine(s)
"her office on Union Street"
    the local center of a large business.
    "a company that has four U.S. and four European offices"
    synonyms:	branch, division, section, bureau, department; agency
    "the newspaper's Paris office"
    a room, department, or building used to provide a particular service.
    "a ticket office"
    North American
    the consulting room of a professional person.
2. a position of authority, trust, or service, typically one of a public nature.
"the office of attorney general"
synonyms:	post, position, appointment, job, occupation, role, situation, station, function, capacity
"he assumed the office of mayor"    

opus (work) + facere (do) = officium = performance of a task or duty
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Interestingly, in a human sense, the office is thus a social phenom… as distinct from the individual’s spirit inside it…

Hmmm…
 
In the Church Fathers, like St. Augustine, and scholastic theologians, like St. Thomas Aquinas, we often run into terms which have evolved since their time period. ‘Office’ is one of them. The best understanding of the theological concept actually comes from the word origin at the bottom. Opus + Facere. The office of an angel describes specifically what they do, not necessarily a position they hold like in government. The latter concept tends to invoke that any spirit can fulfill that position as any human can hold a specific political office, that the office is secondary to the angel’s individual identity.

To understand this, we must understand the difference between an individual human and an individual angel. Humans only achieve individuality through individuation into matter. One human is only distinct from another because of the spe ific body our spirit/soul posesses. We are a composite of body and soul. Even after death, our individuality persists because of that inherent link to our bodies. This is emphasized by the fact that we aren’t destined for life as pure spirit/soul after death, but will receive a glorified body. In Augustine, this is doubly important, because he believed that there was but one human soul created by God, that of Adam’s.It was only through the separation of Adam and Eve’s bodies that the soul was individuated a second time. Through bodily individuation, the soul of Adam becomes both unique and our own. St. Thomas somwhat moves away from this concept as he was a neo-Aristotelian and Augustine was a neo-Platonist, but keeps many of the same elements. Aquinas says that soul/spirit was individuated into Adam, instead of being individuated from Adam.

Angels have no bodily individuation. They are pure spirit, yet how can we say there are multiple angels? This was one of the questions Aquinas was famous for answering. Angels aren’t individuated through bodies, but the work they do, their office. This is touched on when I spoke of an angel’s name. The office of a spirit is as essential to the individual spirit as our bodies are essential to our own individual selves. The individual angel is created from pure spirit to do a specific work.

A quick comparison would be that I was created specifically to be Benjamin James Weiskircher. Any angel was specifically created to do their work, fulfil their office. My office, in this sense is, to be Ben Weiskircher, in all of that identity’s aspects. An angel’s office (of whatever choir) is to relay the specidic message of God which they were created to relay.

Spirit is what angels are, what type of creation they are. Office is who they are.
 
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