Angels & the corruption of Lucifer

[Sam_777]

What prevents other Angels from becoming corrupted like Lucifer?, what prevents Angel Gabriel or any other Angel from repeating Lucifer grave sin in our earthy time or later after the resurrection

Member **Dorothy **have provided a link for Father Fortea where he quotes: “After God created the angels, He tested their fidelity to Him before admitting them to the Beatific Vision, the sight of His very essence. For purely spiritual beings, this “seeing” of God’s essence would be a purely intellectual vision. Some angels obeyed the divine test; others did not. Those who disobeyed were irreversibly transformed into demons and cast out of heaven.”

 

[Dorothy]

What prevents other Angels from becoming corrupted like Lucifer?, what prevents Angel Gabriel or any other Angel from repeating Lucifer grave sin in our earthy time or later after the resurrection

Member **Dorothy **have provided a link for Father Fortea where he quotes: “After God created the angels, He tested their fidelity to Him before admitting them to the Beatific Vision, the sight of His very essence. For purely spiritual beings, this “seeing” of God’s essence would be a purely intellectual vision. Some angels obeyed the divine test; others did not. Those who disobeyed were irreversibly transformed into demons and cast out of heaven.”

The angels who chose to be with God and did not commit the sin of pride were then brought into the fullness of beatitude with God (His Full Presence) and will never want to leave.

The had been given a test before they were brought into the fullness of God’s Presence, and God gave them the ability to see in advance the consequences of their choice. (unlike man, who sins, gets up, sins, gets up and learns on the journey to seek Him through prayer, Sacraments, blessings, etc.).

In Jesus and Mary, (new Adam, new Eve)

Many of His blessings to you!

Dorothy

 

[albertus_magnus]

I was recently reading about this.

St. Thomas Aquinas addressed this issue in Summa Theologica.

ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q62_A8.html

 

[Sam_777]

I was recently reading about this.

St. Thomas Aquinas addressed this issue in Summa Theologica.

ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q62_A8.html

Does that mean there was no beatified Angels when Lucifer sinned?

 

[JerryZ]

What prevents other Angels from becoming corrupted like Lucifer?, what prevents Angel Gabriel or any other Angel from repeating Lucifer grave sin in our earthy time or later after the resurrection

Member **Dorothy **have provided a link for Father Fortea where he quotes: “After God created the angels, He tested their fidelity to Him before admitting them to the Beatific Vision, the sight of His very essence. For purely spiritual beings, this “seeing” of God’s essence would be a purely intellectual vision. Some angels obeyed the divine test; others did not. Those who disobeyed were irreversibly transformed into demons and cast out of heaven.”

They CHOSE to serve God

 

[albertus_magnus]

Does that mean there was no beatified Angels when Lucifer sinned?

The angels were not beatified from their creation.

 

[Sam_777]

They CHOSE to serve God

Okay, I agree with you, but what the guaranty that some of them will not change their minds in the future

We saw what a single Angel have done to us…

 

[Sam_777]

The angels were not beatified from their creation.

So shall I understand that we had before Lucifer fall:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones
Dominions
Virtues
Powers
Principalities
Archangels
Angels

But now we have:
Beatified Seraphim
Beatified Cherubim
Beatified Thrones
Beatified Dominions
Beatified Virtues
Beatified Powers
Beatified Principalities
Beatified Archangels
Beatified Angels

 

[Nita]

So shall I understand that we had before Lucifer fall:
Seraphim
Cherubim
Thrones
Dominions
Virtues
Powers
Principalities
Archangels
Angels

But now we have:
Beatified Seraphim
Beatified Cherubim
Beatified Thrones
Beatified Dominions
Beatified Virtues
Beatified Powers
Beatified Principalities
Beatified Archangels
Beatified Angels

No different than us you might say. Before our definitive choice either for or against God (finalized at time of death) we are just “people” - men, women, boys, girls… After the final choice, those who have choosen God and are with Him eternally in heaven are “beatified people”.

Before final choce:
Men
Women
Young Boys
Young Girls
Baby Boys
Baby Girls

After death for those in heaven:
Beatified Men
Beatified Women
Beatified …

 

[Nita]

Okay, I agree with you, but what the guaranty that some of them will not change their minds in the future

We saw what a single Angel have done to us…

They cannot change their minds anymore than humans can change their minds once we have died; once the definitive choice has been made. We can know that it is not possible to change because Scripture speaks of both states as being eternal, never ending.

 

[louisak]

I have heard somewhat different explanations of this, I suspect that the full truth is impossible for us to grasp; the problem is that we live in time, and yet we are trying to understand eternity. We can’t do it, any more than a two-dimensional being could imagine what it is like to live in three dimensions.

We know that Heaven and Hell are eternal states, therefore change does not occur as it does for us, who live in time. But for our imaginations, this is misleading. Most people have probably seen some science fiction movie or TV show in which time gets “frozen” except for one person or one small group of people. All the other people become motionless like statues because time is not passing for them. If we try to imagine Heaven or Hell as eternal states, without change, we are liable to imagine something like that - being motionless like statues forever. But of course Heaven can’t be anything like that, that would be misery not bliss. We just have to accept that these are things we can’t understand.

 

[Sam_777]

No different than us you might say. Before our definitive choice either for or against God (finalized at time of death) we are just “people” - men, women, boys, girls… After the final choice, those who have choosen God and are with Him eternally in heaven are “beatified people”.

Before final choce:
Men
Women
Young Boys
Young Girls
Baby Boys
Baby Girls

After death for those in heaven:
Beatified Men
Beatified Women
Beatified …

They cannot change their minds anymore than humans can change their minds once we have died; once the definitive choice has been made. We can know that it is not possible to change because Scripture speaks of both states as being eternal, never ending.

Thank you Nita, that was helpful.

 

[Sam_777]

We just have to accept that these are things we can’t understand.

Someone of JESUS disciples should have asked him such questions… :bible1:

 

[PCalungsod]

What prevents other Angels from becoming corrupted like Lucifer?, what prevents Angel Gabriel or any other Angel from repeating Lucifer grave sin in our earthy time or later after the resurrection

Member **Dorothy **have provided a link for Father Fortea where he quotes: “After God created the angels, He tested their fidelity to Him before admitting them to the Beatific Vision, the sight of His very essence. For purely spiritual beings, this “seeing” of God’s essence would be a purely intellectual vision. Some angels obeyed the divine test; others did not. Those who disobeyed were irreversibly transformed into demons and cast out of heaven.”

First of all, God, when He created angels, He gave them each with a supremely free will. We know that the price of heaven is the love for God. The love for God must be proved in the only way in which the love for God can be proved, that is through a free and voluntary submission to God, which we call an act of obedience or an act of loyalty. To do such, God has tested the angels. If they have passed that test of obedience(in order to prove their love and loyalty to God), that is the only time they would see God face to face; only then they would enter into that union with God (the one we call “heaven”). Whether they choose to be obedient to God or not, having a completely perfect and free will, whatever their decision is, it will NEVER change through all eternity (their will is fixed, they do not change decisions like us humans do, due to our weaknesses). Hence, those angels who chooses to be obedient to God will remain forever faithful with Him, and those who rebelled will also never have a change of decision or ask for God’s forgiveness.

 

[PCalungsod]

Someone of JESUS disciples should have asked him such questions… :bible1:

Me thinks, maybe the reason why Jesus never taught or the apostles didn’t ask (as we know, there are no such exchanges between Jesus and the apostles about this matter in the Scriptures, but who knows if such exchange really happened) such thing (“Why does the good angels never fall into the sin that angels like Lucifer comitted?”, “Why does the will of angels never change?” or “What prevents angel like Gabriel from being corrupted?”) is because maybe, just maybe, such knowledge isn’t that necessary to our salvation; that it is enough for us to know that these beings were created by God to minister to us, join us is in worshipping God and help us against evil. That, and the fact that our knowledge as of now, due to our human nature is LIMITED, which makes it difficult to understand even if God told/ taught us about this issue.Perhaps, we will fully understand this when we are already in Beatific Vision (I hope and pray that we will make it there), just like those angels.

 

[Sam_777]

Whether they choose to be obedient to God or not, having a completely perfect and free will, whatever their decision is, it will NEVER change through all eternity (their will is fixed, they do not change decisions like us humans do, due to our weaknesses). Hence, those angels who chooses to be obedient to God will remain forever faithful with Him, and those who rebelled will also never have a change of decision or ask for God’s forgiveness.

Is that based on an opinion or it’s the Church dogma?

is because maybe, just maybe, such knowledge isn’t that necessary to our salvation;

Okay .

Perhaps, we will fully understand this when we are already in Beatific Vision (I hope and pray that we will make it there), just like those angels.

AMEN

 

[PCalungsod]

Is that based on an opinion or it’s the Church Dogma

Well if you are familiar with the works of the saints such as that of St. Thomas Aquinas and other Catholic books (with imprimaturs ofcourse; E.g “Friendship with Angels”, which is printed under Paulines publishing house) tackling about these heavenly beings, then you’ll know what I am talking about. As of a particular dogma, perhaps you can do some searching.

 

[Sam_777]

St. Thomas Aquinas and other Catholic books (with imprimaturs ofcourse; E.g “Friendship with Angels”, which is printed under Paulines publishing house)

Thanks for the clarification.