'Angels'

[nablaise]

The word ‘angels’ simply mean messangers. So they can be the spiritual persons we usually call angels, or humans. But could also be aliens beings?

Some biblical descriptions seem to describe alien ships/space crafts and different type of alien accounter. I mean what we call today ‘alien accounter’ could have been seen to ancient people as messangers of God.

Could it be possible that we are not alone in the universe, and since the beginning all God’s creature actually interracted with each other often in helpful ways? Like those whom we call aliens today coming often on Earth to help out in some ways, and people saw them as angels/messangers of God?

I am thinking that it is quite possible that God can send aliens as messanger for something. If he made them and they are also good, then they must be serving him too in some ways. Some biblical language like chariots and weels in air/clouds in some visions just seem to indicate spaceships.

God bless

 

[Trishie]

We can only speculate…but Angels are pure spirit. They don’t in fact have bodies. They are, you could say, a race of spiritual beings, and their time of testing preceded ours as scripture reveals.

When God has sent His messengers it is only with His messages and missions, not with their own self generated ideas and messages.

It is possible in the vastness of space that there are other creatures, whether or not, if other races exist, they have also been given souls we can’t know.
I understand you thinking, I know one of my sons wonders as you do…

 

[thistle]

The word ‘angels’ simply mean messangers. So they can be the spiritual persons we usually call angels, or humans. But could also be aliens beings?

Some biblical descriptions seem to describe alien ships/space crafts and different type of alien accounter. I mean what we call today ‘alien accounter’ could have been seen to ancient people as messangers of God.

Could it be possible that we are not alone in the universe, and since the beginning all God’s creature actually interracted with each other often in helpful ways? Like those whom we call aliens today coming often on Earth to help out in some ways, and people saw them as angels/messangers of God?

I am thinking that it is quite possible that God can send aliens as messanger for something. If he made them and they are also good, then they must be serving him too in some ways. Some biblical language like chariots and weels in air/clouds in some visions just seem to indicate spaceships.

God bless

Sorry to be so blunt but that is frankly nonsense. We have not been visited by aliens and that has not been documented in Holy Scripture.

 

[Light_Seeker]

Sorry to be so blunt but that is frankly nonsense. We have not been visited by aliens and that has not been documented in Holy Scripture.

I dunno.

I can understand how an *interpretation *of a few passages as being explained by UFO-ology. Elijah being carried of by a chariot & horses of fire comes to mind. And the entire first chapter of Ezekiel does sound like a UFO encounter. As do various verses in John’s Revelation, or Jacob’s ladder.

If you *believe *in UFO’s, it’s easy to point to these verses and convince yourself they’re spaceships & aliens

Problem I see is many who believe in UFO’s write off every scriptural occurrence of an angel, or heavens, in the bible as a UFO/alien entity. Some even saying Jesus was an alien. In effect, an atheistic viewpoint replacing God with alien technology.

 

[Nita]

And then again, maybe it’s just the opposite: maybe “ufo aliens” are really angels (but very likely not the good ones.)

 

[nablaise]

There is certainly people who go to great extremes to the point of seing the whole Bible story as aliens vs humans. This is a deformation of the Bible and its message. I believe fully what the Church teaches, but I can understand that some of the biblical accounter could have been alien accounter. Aliens, if they exist, are not aliens to God. They fit perfectly in his plan of Creation. They are either faithful or unfaithful to him in their ways. So, if the faithful ones do come here for some faithful purposeses, I can understand that they can still validly pass as angels of God. The prophets would not have been mistaken by believing that they received a message or vision from God. The Church as well would not be mistaken to teach us what she teaches us.

The recent documents from some Vatican source did point out that alien intelligences could very well exists, should be being with bodies, and could not be demons or angels(spirits).

God bless

 

[thistle]

There is certainly people who go to great extremes to the point of seing the whole Bible story as aliens vs humans. This is a deformation of the Bible and its message. I believe fully what the Church teaches, but I can understand that some of the biblical accounter could have been alien accounter. Aliens, if they exist, are not aliens to God. They fit perfectly in his plan of Creation. They are either faithful or unfaithful to him in their ways. So, if the faithful ones do come here for some faithful purposeses, I can understand that they can still validly pass as angels of God. The prophets would not have been mistaken by believing that they received a message or vision from God. The Church as well would not be mistaken to teach us what she teaches us.

The recent documents from some Vatican source did point out that alien intelligences could very well exists, should be being with bodies, and could not be demons or angels(spirits).

God bless

We have NOT been visited by aliens and the Bible certainly does not contain anything so ridiculous.

 

[Light_Seeker]

We have NOT been visited by aliens and the Bible certainly does not contain anything so ridiculous.

Yup. Every unidentified sighting that has ever occurred is either swamp gas or weather balloons.

Glad you are certain we are the only life form in this universe. Must be upsetting that NASA and JPL, among many other scientific institutions and think tanks, think otherwise.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

The word ‘angels’ simply mean messangers. So they can be the spiritual persons we usually call angels, or humans. But could also be aliens beings?

Yes, the word means “messenger” and denotes an office - a title, rather than speaking of their nature. But, it is clear from Scripture that they are bodiless beings who are referred to as “ministering spirits” and who are meant to help human beings (Hebrews). No human is an angel in a Biblical sense. Angels have a spiritual body that is different from ours.

Some biblical descriptions seem to describe alien ships/space crafts and different type of alien accounter. I mean what we call today ‘alien accounter’ could have been seen to ancient people as messangers of God.

Which Biblical descriptions do you have in mind?

Could it be possible that we are not alone in the universe, and since the beginning all God’s creature actually interracted with each other often in helpful ways? Like those whom we call aliens today coming often on Earth to help out in some ways, and people saw them as angels/messangers of God?

I’ve never heard of an alien who was referred to as a bodiless creature, like the angels (who are definitely bodiless). Aliens have always been described as having “bodies”. So, I don’t see how they could be confused.

I am thinking that it is quite possible that God can send aliens as messanger for something. If he made them and they are also good, then they must be serving him too in some ways. Some biblical language like chariots and weels in air/clouds in some visions just seem to indicate spaceships.

If He has angels to carry out his duties (which the Bible clearly teaches), then why would God need to use aliens to give us messages? If He did, then they have certainly not obeyed. There are no records of aliens giving anyone a message. They just simply fly in, fly out and that’s it.

God bless

God bless you too.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

There is certainly people who go to great extremes to the point of seing the whole Bible story as aliens vs humans. This is a deformation of the Bible and its message. I believe fully what the Church teaches, but I can understand that some of the biblical accounter could have been alien accounter. Aliens, if they exist, are not aliens to God. They fit perfectly in his plan of Creation. They are either faithful or unfaithful to him in their ways. So, if the faithful ones do come here for some faithful purposeses, I can understand that they can still validly pass as angels of God. The prophets would not have been mistaken by believing that they received a message or vision from God. The Church as well would not be mistaken to teach us what she teaches us.

They can’t pass for angels if the ones people claim to have seen have fleshly bodies. You know, green, pointy ears, egg-shaped heads, etc.

The recent documents from some Vatican source did point out that alien intelligences could very well exists, should be being with bodies, and could not be demons or angels(spirits).
God bless

Really? Do you have any specific information or link?

God bless.

 

[Light_Seeker]

But, it is clear from Scripture that they are bodiless beings who are referred to as “ministering spirits” and who are meant to help human beings (Hebrews). No human is an angel in a Biblical sense. Angels have a spiritual body that is different from ours.

Raphael, Gabriel, & Michael appeared with bodies in scripture.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Raphael, Gabriel, & Michael appeared with bodies in scripture.

As I alluded to in another post, they have spiritual bodies, but not human fleshly bodies. A point was made that angels can also be humans. That’s just not true. We have different bodies than they do. Unless you know something I don’t. Is it your contention that the archangels you mention have bodies of flesh? Or are you just stating that they have a “type” of body?

 

[Light_Seeker]

Raphael was Tobias traveling buddy in Tobit. Noone thought he was an angel until he told them. Definitely a body of flesh.

Gabriel appeared to Zechariah in the temple. And Mary.

Michael fought the devil for Moses bones. And is thought to be the Prince Michael in Romans.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Raphael was Tobias traveling buddy in Tobit. Noone thought he was an angel until he told them. Definitely a body of flesh.

Gabriel appeared to Zechariah in the temple. And Mary.

Michael fought the devil for Moses bones. And is thought to be the Prince Michael in Romans.

Raphael appeared to have a fleshly body to Tobias. But was it really?

Did Gabriel have a body of flesh when he appeared to Zechariah?

So, the Devil has a body too? They both have spiritual bodies. Our Father is referred to as “a spirit” in the gospel of John. Does God have a fleshly body too?

Prince Michael in Romans? I don’t understand what you are referring to.

Here’s an interesting link regarding Aquinas’s views:

aquinasonline.com/Topics/angels.html

In the case of demonic possession, the demon possesses a human body temporarily, but cannot be said “own” a fleshly body. The same with angels. Even if they “assumed” a human body form, that doesn’t mean that their nature is in bodily form. They clearly do not “assume” a fleshly body - else they would not be able to travel as they do. Unless you have found a way to transport your human body from Heaven and back without the use of a space shuttle.

 

[Light_Seeker]

Raphael appeared to have a fleshly body to Tobias. But was it really?

It really was to Tobias, he went looking for a man, & found Raphael not knowing he was an angel. It really was to Tobit. And Raguel. And Sarah. And Edna. And the entire wedding feast. And Gabael. Nobody knew he was an angel until he told them, then they fell on their faces in fear.

Did Gabriel have a body of flesh when he appeared to Zechariah?

Zechariah saw him standing in the temple. And Gabriel appeared to Mary. Neither these verses mention Gabriel as in a dream, or as a spirit.

Does God have a fleshly body too?

Sure does! The incarnate Jesus!

 

[Light_Seeker]

Dionysius came up with a hierarchy & classification of angels, from spirtual bodies & cherubs to the archangels. The archangels, in this classification, closest to God, have the most power and can assume bodies of men to do their works for mankind under God.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Dionysius came up with a hierarchy & classification of angels, from spirtual bodies & cherubs to the archangels. The archangels, in this classification, closest to God, have the most power and can assume bodies of men to do their works for mankind under God.

They can assume human bodies, in a somewhat similar fashion as demons “possess” humans. Why do you think an angel or demon has to assume a human body to work in our world? Because they don’t have one themselves. What you fail to realize is that the fleshly body is not theirs. Angels have spiritual bodies and can on occasion (very infrequently) assume a human body. Think about this for a minute - if angels by nature have human bodies, how do they fly back and forth to Heaven?

What does a classification of angels have to do with anything? No, archangels do not have most power. They and the angels are the ones who work closest to us. If you look back at that classification of angels, you should realize that archangels are one rung up from the bottom in regards to the hierarchy, with angels being the lowest.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

It really was to Tobias, he went looking for a man, & found Raphael not knowing he was an angel. It really was to Tobit. And Raguel. And Sarah. And Edna. And the entire wedding feast. And Gabael. Nobody knew he was an angel until he told them, then they fell on their faces in fear.

Zechariah saw him standing in the temple. And Gabriel appeared to Mary. Neither these verses mention Gabriel as in a dream, or as a spirit.

Sure does! The incarnate Jesus!

Does Raphael have a human body? Is his nature one of flesh and bone and spirit? I didn’t say Gabriel appeared in a dream. But, it doesn’t say that he appeared in a fleshly body either.

#Sigh#

Okay. It’s clear you don’t listen very well. I specifically mentioned that God our Father doesn’t have a body as the gospel of St. John clearly states. Somehow I knew that you would mention Jesus. Whatever.

You might want to read what the Church has to say in the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p5.htm

and Father John Corapi:

cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/corapi/jc08.html

I leave you to your thoughts.

 

[thistle]

Yup. Every unidentified sighting that has ever occurred is either swamp gas or weather balloons.

Glad you are certain we are the only life form in this universe. Must be upsetting that NASA and JPL, among many other scientific institutions and think tanks, think otherwise.

You don’t even take the time to read and think about what I said. I did not say there may not be life elsewhere in the universe. That’s what NASA and others are looking for. Think before you comment next time.
I said we have not been visited by aliens and for anyone to suggest the Bible contains anything about that is making a mockery of Holy Scripture.

 

[Light_Seeker]

Does Raphael have a human body? Is his nature one of flesh and bone and spirit? I didn’t say Gabriel appeared in a dream. But, it doesn’t say that he appeared in a fleshly body either.

#Sigh#

Okay. It’s clear you don’t listen very well. I specifically mentioned that God our Father doesn’t have a body as the gospel of St. John clearly states. Somehow I knew that you would mention Jesus. Whatever.

You might want to read what the Church has to say in the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c1p5.htm

and Father John Corapi:

cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/corapi/jc08.html

I leave you to your thoughts.

Well, actually my dinner. Thanks.

Nowhere did I ever say angels are not spiritual beings. I do know what the catechism says, thanks for the link though. And I’m in full agreement, they are spiritual entities. And it is true that in most scriptural accounts of angels, they are incorporeal, or present themselves in dreams. But not always.

What I objected to, and gave you three different scriptural references to, were your posts that “angels (who are definitely bodiless)” and “They can’t pass for angels if the ones people claim to have seen have fleshly bodies”. Posts #9 and #10.

In Tobit, Raphael appeared and was seen by everyone in this book as a human. No questions. He was even asked what (human) family he descended from. He appeared in the flesh to all. Was it actual skin & bone? Perhaps not, but Tobit didn’t have a MRA around to find out, nor did he have any reason to assume he was nothing more than a human being. And nobody else in this book had any reason to assume he was not human. Therefore, he had a body, and it was a fleshy body by all outward appearances.

I also suggested Gabriel appearing to Zecharia & Mary. I chose this scripture because neither Zech nor Mary was in a dream state, as far as we know from what scripture reads. Nor was the angel described in any way that was not in human shape, or a wind in the trees, or a bodiless voice. Mary wasn’t even troubled an angel appeared, she was troubled what he told her! I agree with you, we don’t know if they appeared as non-corporeal entities, scripture doesn’t say. Same with Michael. But since Raphael appeared as a human, how can we eliminate these angels appearing as human?

Yes it was a sucker punch I threw about Jesus having a fleshy body. Like you said, you knew it was coming, & I couldn’t help myself. And thats why I put the big smiley.

God Bless.