Anger, wrath, punishment, evil, sin?

[Jim_Baur]

I hope you forgive the fundamental nature of this thread and my questions, thank you!

If my questions are incorrect, I hope you correct the questioning and then answer the questions, thanks!

Is there a gradation of God’s anger, wrath, punishment, hate, and fire and brimstone?

How are they connected to evil and sin?

A millions thank yous!!!

 

[Verbum]

Hi Jim,

Of course God does not get angry; this is just a human way of talking to emphasize the gravity of certain acts. If God decides to punish humans, the punishement will of course be proportional to the offense and will aim to correct the sinner.

Is this what you were asking about?

Verbum

 

[Jim_Baur]

Thanks!

I understand and totally agree with what you stated.

That is not my question.

Sorry about the difficulty in asking the questions.

I will try again.

Is His “anger” more intense than His “wrath”?

Is His “hate” more intense than His “anger”?

To help you understand my inquiry, I believe that hate, as found in Psalm 5: 7, would be better translated: God works against the sinner (to correct and mend the sinner’s way).

Example: I came home drunk last night, and my wife locked all the doors. I could not get into the house (God was working against me). I got back into my car and drove to the pub. I got a ticket for drunk driving (God is working against me). That is my understanding of God hates sinners.

For other reads, the example is fiction.

 

[chaela_may]

you’re asking deep questions about the nature of God himself. ultimately, we can’t know the mind of God. it would make sense that He feels more than we can ever know, but, beyond that, we just can’t know.

 

[robwar]

Thanks!

I understand and totally agree with what you stated.

That is not my question.

Sorry about the difficulty in asking the questions.

I will try again.

Is His “anger” more intense than His “wrath”?

Is His “hate” more intense than His “anger”?

To help you understand my inquiry, I believe that hate, as found in Psalm 5: 7, would be better translated: God works against the sinner (to correct and mend the sinner’s way).

Example: I came home drunk last night, and my wife locked all the doors. I could not get into the house (God was working against me). I got back into my car and drove to the pub. I got a ticket for drunk driving (God is working against me). That is my understanding of God hates sinners.

For other reads, the example is fiction.

I am not sure if there is much difference between the meaning or the levels between wrath and anger. This is splitting hairs here. Your fictional scenario doesn’t seems to prove anything but that you seem to view God as more vindictive and if one does something wrong, God is going to jump out a zap him or her with a lightening bolt. The fictional scenario is the result of someone going out and getting drunk. being locked out of the house or getting a ticket is the result of their bad choices and behaviors than God zapping them. People want to blame God for the fruits they reap as a result of sin and bad behaviors and choices. God is love and His love allows us to reap consequences of our decisions not to follow Him.

 

[PJM]

=Jim Baur;9904888]I hope you forgive the fundamental nature of this thread and my questions, thank you!

If my questions are incorrect, I hope you correct the questioning and then answer the questions, thanks!

Is there a gradation of God’s anger, wrath, punishment, hate, and fire and brimstone?

How are they connected to evil and sin?

A millions thank yous!!!

Hi Jim,

Thanks for a VERY profound question.

The answer lies in understanding Whio and What God are. Said differently, the answer lies in the Very Divine Nature of God…

We can briefly describe God as:

“ALL GOOD THINGS PERFECTED”

This means that God is literally inacapable of causing Evil fior the sake of evil. God permits; BUT cannot cause “evil.”

What does this mean? Certainly “evil” does exist; and at times God seems “OK” with it.

Ask yourself:

Are Goodness, Fairness and Justice “GOOD THINGS?” OF COURSE THEY ARE.
So then we can know that God must in an absolute sense be: “Good; Fair and Just.”

ALL si is abhorant to God! To such a degree and most of us cannot comprehend. And ALL sins is deserving of God’s “Justice”.

BUT God is ALSO a God of “Love and Mercy”. While this FACT can and does “temper” [lessen] God’s necessary Justice and Fairness; it does NOT emininate it. So YES, the type of sin; it’s gravity, it’s frequency MUST be a factor for God’s administration of His Justice.

**Heb.6: 10 **“For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

**Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

THEE fact that Jesus Instituted the Sacrament of KNOWN forgiveness of sin, and the Church offers many indulgences; does not negate the necessity of Purgatory; or the FACT that a GREAT many souls are there “being purified.”…That too is Evidence of God’s Love for us.

BUT Jesus as GOD has warned us:

Mt. 22:14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.” AND Matt.7: 13-14 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”

JUST as Heaven exist to reward God’s Justice; Hell to exist as the Fair and Just reward of those who freely choose it.

 

[Jim_Baur]

robwar

I agree to some extend on the splitting of hairs.

However, I think that there must be a difference otherwise the authors would not have used different words.

I am sorry for the lack of my ability in conveying my thoughts.

Many English translations, such as for Pslam 5, say that God hates sinners. The Hebrew word there could mean that He works against us. That is a great improvement than saying God hates sinners.

I do not think of God as vindictive–not at all.

In fact, I agree with your last sentence. It is that agreement that made me question the translations that say: “God hates (sane’ ) sinners.”

I understand that God has designed that doing evil (missing the mark) is difficult. His love has made stealing, prostitution, fornication, drunkenness difficult. He does not zap us, but their is an ontic reality of good and evil. Chastity is beautiful For some it might be difficult in getting there, but once one is there, there is joy and happiness.

This is from you: “God is love and His love allows us to reap consequences of our decisions not to follow Him.” I am saying something close to what you are saying. Life is designed, good brings delight; missing the mark (evil) brings discomfort. The further we get from the mark, our discomfort increases.

I apologize for the difficulty in expressing these ideas and concepts.

Thank you!

 

[Jim_Baur]

PJM

Thanks!!!

 

[robwar]

robwar

I agree to some extend on the splitting of hairs.

However, I think that there must be a difference otherwise the authors would not have used different words.

I am sorry for the lack of my ability in conveying my thoughts.

Many English translations, such as for Pslam 5, say that God hates sinners. The Hebrew word there could mean that He works against us. That is a great improvement than saying God hates sinners.

I do not think of God as vindictive–not at all.

In fact, I agree with your last sentence. It is that agreement that made me question the translations that say: “God hates (sane’ ) sinners.”

I understand that God has designed that doing evil (missing the mark) is difficult. His love has made stealing, prostitution, fornication, drunkenness difficult. He does not zap us, but their is an ontic reality of good and evil. Chastity is beautiful For some it might be difficult in getting there, but once one is there, there is joy and happiness.

This is from you: “God is love and His love allows us to reap consequences of our decisions not to follow Him.” I am saying something close to what you are saying. Life is designed, good brings delight; missing the mark (evil) brings discomfort. The further we get from the mark, our discomfort increases.

I apologize for the difficulty in expressing these ideas and concepts.

Thank you!

Hi Jim,
not a problem, I would guess the difference between the uses of wrath or anger would be the same as how we might use it in English. I think I was more responding to the scenario which I realize is fictional but I know that many people do blame God for bad things that actual result from their own bad choices. I reread Psalm 5 to get a sense of the whole thought there. I know it is easy to take one verse out of context. While verse 5:6 says:
… You hate all who do evil" (The New American Bible), verse 5:8 goes one to say," But I can enter your house because of your great love. I can worship in your holy temple because of my reverence for you, Lord." Taking in the whole of Psalm 5, if would seems that David is saying God hates the sinner because of what they do, (see verse 5:5) but because of God’s love, we can come to Him in reverence (and repentance). The hatred of the sinner is probably more about what the person is doing sin than just plan old hatred of the person if I am reading the whole context of Psalm 5 correctly. This would fit with many others verses in the OT where there are calls for sinners to turn away from evil and follow God and that God does not delight in the destruction of an evil person but want repentance and turn away from evil.

 

[Jim_Baur]

robwar

thanks!!!