Anglican adoration of the Eucharist

[Brendan_64]

From a Catholic perspective, what is the Anglican Eucharist?

From a Catholic perspective, when Anglican churches have their Eucharist exposed and reverently adored, what is being adored? Is it the real presence of Our Lord?

 

[aidanbradypop]

From a Catholic perspective, what is the Anglican Eucharist?

From a Catholic perspective, when Anglican churches have their Eucharist exposed and reverently adored, what is being adored? Is it the real presence of Our Lord?

They do not have a valid priesthood so therefore they cannot have a valid Eucharist.

 

[Brendan_64]

They do not have a valid priesthood so therefore they cannot have a valid Eucharist.

I suspected as such. It seems a real shame, especially when you see Anglicans reverently adoring the Eucharist in their church. Hopefully Our Lord will look down and recognise the intent of these individuals, as they focus reverently on what they believe to be His body and blood.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I suspected as such. It seems a real shame, especially when you see Anglicans reverently adoring the Eucharist in their church. Hopefully Our Lord will look down and recognise the intent of these individuals, as they focus reverently on what they believe to be His body and blood.

That can be our hope:thumbsup:

 

[bben15]

From our perspective, they’re adoring a communion wafer.

However, there was a movement in the 19th century where Old Catholic bishops tried to restore apostolic succession to the Anglican church. So it is possible that there are some Anglican priests that have valid Orders.

 

[aemcpa]

From our perspective, they’re adoring a communion wafer.

Since they are therefore objectively committing idolatry and violating the First Commandment, I think a different emoticon is in order: :bigyikes:

 

[ServantPD]

From our perspective, they’re adoring a communion wafer.

However, there was a movement in the 19th century where Old Catholic bishops tried to restore apostolic succession to the Anglican church. So it is possible that there are some Anglican priests that have valid Orders.

Yep, pretty much what I was going to answer!

It’s a bit tricky to know if the wafer you’re looking at is the actual Eucharist, especially when their apostolic succession is starting to involve women in the middle of the process. If you can manage to know who ordinated the priest and if there were no ladies in there, they may (can’t be sure, but possibilities are higher) just be adorating the same Holy Eucharist as we do.

 

[Brendan_64]

Since they are therefore objectively committing idolatry and violating the First Commandment, I think a different emoticon is in order: :bigyikes:

They are** not **committing idolatry. Idolatry is a mortal sin, which has to be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. If an Anglican genuinely believes that this is the body and blood of Christ, and they adore it as such, then no sin has been committed.

How can an Anglican adoring what he genuinely believes to be Our Lord, be uncharitable? How can it be a separation from God?

Anglicans are not sinning by adoring what they genuinely believe to be the body and blood of Christ.

 

[cheezey]

They are** not **committing idolatry. Idolatry is a mortal sin, which has to be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. If an Anglican genuinely believes that this is the body and blood of Christ, and they adore it as such, then no sin has been committed.

How can an Anglican adoring what he genuinely believes to be Our Lord, be uncharitable? How can it be a separation from God?

Anglicans are not sinning by adoring what they genuinely believe to be the body and blood of Christ.

thank you.

 

[aidanbradypop]

They are** not **committing idolatry. Idolatry is a mortal sin, which has to be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. If an Anglican genuinely believes that this is the body and blood of Christ, and they adore it as such, then no sin has been committed.

How can an Anglican adoring what he genuinely believes to be Our Lord, be uncharitable? How can it be a separation from God?

Anglicans are not sinning by adoring what they genuinely believe to be the body and blood of Christ.

 

[aemcpa]

They are** not **committing idolatry. Idolatry is a mortal sin, which has to be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent. If an Anglican genuinely believes that this is the body and blood of Christ, and they adore it as such, then no sin has been committed.

How can an Anglican adoring what he genuinely believes to be Our Lord, be uncharitable? How can it be a separation from God?

Anglicans are not sinning by adoring what they genuinely believe to be the body and blood of Christ.

Idolatry is an objective act of worshipping something that is not the true God. When done with full knowledge and deliberate consent, it is a mortal sin. I stated only that the matter of the action was grave matter. Don’t put words in my mouth.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Nobody but a validly-ordained Catholic or Orthodox priest can consecrate the Holy Eucharist, and no amount of wishing can change that, but I believe that those Anglicans, Lutherans, and even some Evangelicals who accept and wholeheartedly believe in the teaching of the Real Presence may be able to make a spiritual communion or receive some graces, even though what they partake of is only bread.

 

[Brendan_64]

Idolatry is an objective act of worshipping something that is not the true God. When done with full knowledge and deliberate consent, it is a mortal sin. I stated only that the matter of the action was grave matter. Don’t put words in my mouth.

But is it a violation of the First Commandment?

Ex 20:2-3 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me”.

Even their host may not be (as we know it) the actual body and blood of Christ, by adoring it Anglicans are in fact worshipping the one true God. They are certainly not putting another God before Him. Simply misunderstanding what their host is does not constitute putting another god before Our Lord.

I would argue that in doing so they are in fact also demonstrating that they are following the first of the Greatest Commandments that Christ gave us.

Matt 22:37 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind."

They are demonstrating love for the Lord our God with all their heart.

Anglicans do not violate these commandments by adoring their Eucharist.

 

[porthos11]

But is it a violation of the First Commandment?

Ex 20:2-3 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me”.

Even their host may not be (as we know it) the actual body and blood of Christ, by adoring it Anglicans are in fact worshipping the one true God. They are certainly not putting another God before Him. Simply misunderstanding what their host is does not constitute putting another god before Our Lord.

I would argue that in doing so they are in fact also demonstrating that they are following the first of the Greatest Commandments that Christ gave us.

Matt 22:37 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind."

They are demonstrating love for the Lord our God with all their heart.

Anglicans do not violate these commandments by adoring their Eucharist.

We can distinguish between objective and subjective. Objectively, they are committing idolatry, but subjectively, we cannot impute guilt because they are doing what they believe to be right, and in fact, their intention is to adore the Lord, not a piece of bread.

This is why many Anglicans, after having realized that they didn’t really have what they wanted to worship, entered the Catholic Church. But for those who are still Anglican, even though they may not have the Real Presence, one cannot say that there is no (actual) grace in what they do. This grace has led to the fullness of communion for many Anglicans by drawing them to the Catholic Church.

 

[otjm]

Since they are therefore objectively committing idolatry and violating the First Commandment, I think a different emoticon is in order: :bigyikes:

Considering that many of them are better at following Christ than a lot of Catholics I have known, I would strongly disagree. They are not trying to worhip a wafer; they are trying to worship God. God knows the difference; I suspect you do too.

And considering the toll it takes for them to “cross the Tiber” as a number have done, I would hope if you ever met one of them while they were in process, you would keep that to yourself.

 

[Brendan_64]

And considering the toll it takes for them to “cross the Tiber” as a number have done, I would hope if you ever met one of them while they were in process, you would keep that to yourself.

 

[aemcpa]

:bighanky:

I have no problem calling a spade a spade, or telling an Anglican he’s worshiping bread.

 

[Brendan_64]

:bighanky:

I have no problem calling a spade a spade, or telling an Anglican he’s worshiping bread.

And what would you be aiming to achieve by that?

 

[otjm]

:bighanky:

I have no problem calling a spade a spade, or telling an Anglican he’s worshiping bread.

Wow. And I bet you are leading them into the Church in droves.

 

[JonNC]

Nobody but a validly-ordained Catholic or Orthodox priest can consecrate the Holy Eucharist, and no amount of wishing can change that, but I believe that those Anglicans, Lutherans, and even some Evangelicals who accept and wholeheartedly believe in the teaching of the Real Presence may be able to make a spiritual communion or receive some graces, even though what they partake of is only bread.

Thank you.

From the below link, paragraph 107:

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of ‘validity.’ Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church,** need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord’s Supper **

nccbuscc.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

Jon