Anglican Bishop Denies Heaven

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Dauphin said:
time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1710844,00.html

Apparently, we don’t go to heaven or hell when we die. I wonder what the Anglicans will come up with next!
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Where he’s right-

There will be a return of Christ to bring about a new creation which will be both physical and spiritual. in the sacraments we already have a foretaste of this. This is why we say “we believe in the resurrection of the dead”. We will have a resurrected body at the end of time.

Where he’s wrong-

I think he downplays the role of souls in the intermediate phase of heaven. he says they are not active and in a type of sleep. We believe that the souls in heaven are very active, in a paradise(God’s presence), that without their body they are not limited to time and space, and that they intercede on our behalf.
 
Reading the article from TIME, the title should say, "Christians Wrong about Child-like View of Heaven, says Bishop. Then again, that wouldn’t be controversial enough to sell magazines.

Reading the article, I don’t think the Bishop’s view is all that radical. The RCC teaching is that heaven is union with God, and that one day there will be a resurrection of the dead. As to its physical nature, place, etc., the CC takes no position. We leave that up to God. I don’t see what is being said as contradicting that view. Seems to me the Bishop’s words are another point of view, and not necessarily a heretical one at that.
 
Franciscan said:
I think he downplays the role of souls in the intermediate phase of heaven. he says they are not active and in a type of sleep. We believe that the souls in heaven are very active, in a paradise(God’s presence), that without their body they are not limited to time and space, and that they intercede on our behalf.
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I think he actually believes in a sort of limbo between earth and heaven, in which we’re in a state of happiness.
 
joeybaggz said:
Reading the article from TIME, the title should say, "Christians Wrong about Child-like View of Heaven, says Bishop. Then again, that wouldn’t be controversial enough to sell magazines.

Reading the article, I don’t think the Bishop’s view is all that radical. The RCC teaching is that heaven is union with God, and that one day there will be a resurrection of the dead. As to its physical nature, place, etc., the CC takes no position. We leave that up to God. I don’t see what is being said as contradicting that view. Seems to me the Bishop’s words are another point of view, and not necessarily a heretical one at that.
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He sees Michaelangelo’s Fresco of the Last Judgment in the Sistine Chapel as one of those “child-like views”. He doesn’t believe we’re judged upon our death and either enter heaven or hell. He’s developed his own personal interpretation which contradicts the teaching of the Church:

*1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification[592] or immediately,[593]-or immediate and everlasting damnation.[594] *
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.[595]

(from the Catechism)
 
Wright’s view are not Catholic, which is not surprising as he is not Catholic. I am not sure they are heretical, though. Other than omitting Purgatory his comments line up well with Catholic teaching. He is saying that we are asleep in Christ until the Final Judgment, and that what people think of as Heaven will be a renewal of the universe, not a mystical sky city. This is pretty Catholic.
1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:
The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.629
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."630 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."631
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He doesn’t mention it in the article, but I have read other things by Wright and I am pretty sure he does not reject the concept of Hell, those that are not saved are not invited to participate in renewed world.

No one really knows what the final reward will be like, but his ideas don’t seem inherently heretical. To call them a denial of heaven is just hype for the magazine.
 
TMC said:
Wright’s view are not Catholic, which is not surprising as he is not Catholic. I am not sure they are heretical, though. Other than omitting Purgatory his comments line up well with Catholic teaching. He is saying that we are asleep in Christ until the Final Judgment, and that what people think of as Heaven will be a renewal of the universe, not a mystical sky city. This is pretty Catholic.

He doesn’t mention it in the article, but I have read other things by Wright and I am pretty sure he does not reject the concept of Hell, those that are not saved are not invited to participate in renewed world.

No one really knows what the final reward will be like, but his ideas don’t seem inherently heretical. To call them a denial of heaven is just hype for the magazine.
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This was my general reaction, also.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus
 
Dauphin said:
He sees Michaelangelo’s Fresco of the Last Judgment in the Sistine Chapel as one of those “child-like views”. He doesn’t believe we’re judged upon our death and either enter heaven or hell. He’s developed his own personal interpretation which contradicts the teaching of the Church:

*1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification[592] or immediately,[593]-or immediate and everlasting damnation.[594] *
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.[595]

(from the Catechism)
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I read it a bit differently. The Bishop is referring to those whose life merits heaven. I don’t think his point is judgment at all, but the nature of the existence of heaven. (although it would have made things clearer if he did) It sounds like he is attempting to explain that intermediate state between the particular judgment of man at his death, and the general judgment at the end of time when Christ will come and separate the just and the wicked. Catholic doctrine teaches the physical resurrection of the body at the end of time, but our life with God in the interim isn’t known to us as to the particulars. If he said that there was no life with God between death and the end of time, I’d be right there with you Dauphin on that one.

The other problem is that the interviewer did’nt go into any particulars with him. Of course, TIME is looking for sensationalism, it sells more copy. The media will always does this. The Catholic Church has defined its doctrine over two thousand years. We will never be able to fully articulate a doctrine, dogma, or teaching in a one page interview or an eight second sound bite. And granted, the Anglican Church believes much of the same doctrine as the RCC and their teaching is just as extensive. They fall victim to this trap with the media also.
 
Dauphin said:
time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1710844,00.html

Apparently, we don’t go to heaven or hell when we die. I wonder what the Anglicans will come up with next!
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In view of sub-Christian nonsense like this:​

  • It therefore comes as a something of a shock that Wright doesn’t believe in heaven — at least, not in the way that millions of Christians understand the term. In his new book, Surprised by Hope (HarperOne), Wright quotes a children’s book by California first lady Maria Shriver called What’s Heaven, which describes it as “a beautiful place where you can sit on soft clouds and talk… If you’re good throughout your life, then you get to go [there]… When your life is finished here on earth, God sends angels down to take you heaven to be with him.” That, says Wright is a good example of “what not to say.” The Biblical truth, he continues, “is very, very different.”
  • I can’t see what the fuss is about. He is doing exactly what a bishop should: correcting woefully inaccurate & seriously misleading ideas on a matter of considerable doctrinal importance.
But any stick seems to be enough to lambaste the C of E with…
 
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