Anglican/Catholic

[GKC]

Oh boloney. Nothing could drive Jim from sci-fi or comics or anglophilia.

It was close.

GKC

 

[Contarini]

His last one:The Transmigration of Timothy Archer.

PKD almost drove me out of reading SF. If not high, he was frequently weird.

GKC

Sure he’s weird. That’s why I like him

This will have to go on one of those topics on which we disagree, whose existence gurneyhalleck denies!

(Actually, I think you agree with gurney on more topics than you agree with me. But you are an example to both of us for how to deal with disagreement like a Christian gentleman.)

Edwin

 

[GKC]

Sure he’s weird. That’s why I like him

This will have to go on one of those topics on which we disagree, whose existence gurneyhalleck denies!

(Actually, I think you agree with gurney on more topics than you agree with me. But you are an example to both of us for how to deal with disagreement like a Christian gentleman.)

Edwin

Aw, it’s just that I can’t work up a good emotion, anymore. Aging, I calls it.

Kurt Vonnegut, too. I happened on THE THREE STIGMATA OF PALMER ELDRITCH and CAT’S CRADLE at about the same time (1965).

Almost took up knitting.

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I don’t know. It seems Jim is an awfully big Edwin fan. President of the North American chapter of the Contarini fan club I hear The last time you agreed with me on something…had to be like 2007! LOL

As for liking weird, nothing wrong with that. That’s why I’m a Yes, Rush, Pink Floyd, Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel fan. I like weird. I’m an X Files, Star Trek, supergeek. Perhaps my affection for comics, sci-fi, and all that is something GKC can grab onto. I’m a San Francisco Giants fan; we’re all weird!

He likes you better. He’s known you longer and you have a Phd…

Sure he’s weird. That’s why I like him

This will have to go on one of those topics on which we disagree, whose existence gurneyhalleck denies!

(Actually, I think you agree with gurney on more topics than you agree with me. But you are an example to both of us for how to deal with disagreement like a Christian gentleman.)

Edwin

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Oh here we go with the ‘I’m a broken-down old man’ bit again; you know you’re not an old coot…you’re sharp as a tack and just fine! Not liking Frank Herbert and Dune isn’t senility, just bad taste!

Aw, it’s just that I can’t work up a good emotion, anymore. Aging, I calls it.

Kurt Vonnegut, too. I happened on THE THREE STIGMATA OF PALMER ELDRITCH and CAT’S CRADLE at about the same time (1965).

Almost took up knitting.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Oh here we go with the ‘I’m a broken-down old man’ bit again; you know you’re not an old coot…you’re sharp as a tack and just fine! Not liking Frank Herbert and Dune isn’t senility, just bad taste!

Well, I have to admit, reading DUNE didn’t make me consider chucking SF.

Just chucking Herbert.

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Herbert is just too brilliant. Some people don’t get him. It takes a brilliant, Kwisatz Haderak to comprehend the genius.

Chesterton didn’t make me consider chucking Catholicism. Just made me want less fudge bars and not want to listen to bloviating wordsmiths

Well, I have to admit, reading DUNE didn’t make me consider chucking SF.

Just chucking Herbert.

GKC

 

[Contarini]

Herbert is just too brilliant. Some people don’t get him. It takes a brilliant, Kwisatz Haderak to comprehend the genius.

I made it through the first book after several tries. Haven’t felt much desire to read the sequels.

The book is brilliant in many ways, but I don’t much like his imagined world, I find his tone pretentious, and I don’t think his treatment of religion is particularly insightful.

Edwin

 

[GKC]

I made it through the first book after several tries. Haven’t felt much desire to read the sequels.

The book is brilliant in many ways, but I don’t much like his imagined world, I find his tone pretentious, and I don’t think his treatment of religion is particularly insightful.

Edwin

I agree with Edwin.

The phrase “I don’t much like his imagined world” resonates, in particular.

GKC

 

[Bluegoat]

I made it through the first book after several tries. Haven’t felt much desire to read the sequels.

The book is brilliant in many ways, but I don’t much like his imagined world, I find his tone pretentious, and I don’t think his treatment of religion is particularly insightful.

Edwin

If you only read the first book, I would say that what he is saying about religion is probably not evident. The conclusion of Dune would give a different impression than the series as a whole would.

That being said, I’m not actually sure what he was saying about religion…

On another note, I really hate Rush. If they were a sci-fi novel, I’d give it up for sure. Something about Rush, Pink Flloyd, and a few others - they are all man-bands.

Though pink flloyd always makes me think about sheep, so that is ok.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I thought the first four were brilliant. I think not only the universe he created was amazing and extensive, I disagree with you that he was pretentious. I also think you’re wrong about his view on religion. Dune is about self-fullfilling prophecies and it explores the concept as to how a religion can manipulate a situation and appear prophetic, put machinery in place to dupe people and use the structures of said religion to gain power over people’s minds and politics. I think the way the missionaria protectiva of the Bene Gesserit plants little seeds of false prophecies across the galaxy is fascinating. Just in case they need to exploit the prophecy at a later date and use mythology for their own selfish purposes, the seed is there. It also explores prophecy as a loop. Paul, as Muad’dib, is really being manipulated by Jessica to dupe the populace of the fremen for mere survival purposes but instead, whether he realizes it or not, Paul’s Muad’dib figure becomes a real messianic figure and the spice envelopes his understandings guiding him into a prophetic history he didn’t plan on. That is how prophecy works. It’s static and we can’t escape our destiny. No matter how hard we try NOT to be pawns of prophecy, if prophecy is true, we are prisoners of fate.

I think it was brilliant.

As for not liking his imagined world, nobody said you have to like it. It’s not meant, necessarily to be liked, no? It’s a treatment of a future that is full of intrigue, familial dynastical quarreling, human beings coming out of a history that sold out to technology, and it’s a dystopia to some degree. I think it is more didactic than a “hope you like it!” series. Herbert was a passionate ecologist and the books, the first few at least, are heavily focused on ecosystems and the synergy of how ecosystems work. It’s cynical as to how humanity tries to manipulate the ecology of the planet and ends up shooting itself in the foot.

It’s also metaphorical with the spice representing oil and natural resources on earth. It explores addiction, manipulation of resources, corporate greed, on and on.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t like the books. Your loss IMO.

I don’t see anything pretentious whatsoever in the series either.

I made it through the first book after several tries. Haven’t felt much desire to read the sequels.

The book is brilliant in many ways, but I don’t much like his imagined world, I find his tone pretentious, and I don’t think his treatment of religion is particularly insightful.

Edwin

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I think Edwin is misreading Herbert. I might be wrong. He seems as if Herbert is commenting on ALL religion and taking a negative tone toward faith and religion. Personally, I don’t see that at all. And in my reading of Herbert and his life and views, that’s not him. Herbert was looking at “a” possible road that religion can take. And it is more influenced by the religious model of Islam IMO. I think it smacks of a Shi’ite tone. It’s about prophecy and precience, all the things I said in my previous post. I think Mormonism has many of the attributes of Herbert’s universe of religion.

I agree that a reading of only book one gives an incomplete picture. Dune Messiah was originally, in Herbert’s mind, part of the first book actually.

As for not liking Rush, you can now hand in your Canadian citizenship. Those guys are Canadian lords of rock. I ADORED Rush in high school. Alex Lifeson inspired me as a guitarist and Neil Peart’s drumming is out of this world. Their themes, sound, and creativity is off the charts. Their sound is unparalleled. Rush kicks butt! I dare you to buy “Grace Under Pressure” and listen to it and still tell me you hate them. That album is so powerful and explores themes that are deep indeed. Pink Floyd is a bit of a downer so I can understand your apprehension with those cats. They tend to focus a lot on madness, abandonment, and dark themes. I think Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall are legendary though. That all being said, I’m principally a Toto and Yes fan. Those two are my bread and butter along with Steely Dan. Guitar heroes: Stevie Ray Vaughan, Steve Lukather, and Steve Howe. I’m sure Edwin would find them all banal and empty LOL!

Edwin and I have a relationship on here like the Beatles song goes: “you say yes, I say no, you say stop, and I say go, go go! You say goodbye and I say hello!” LOL

All this talk of music is making me salivate. My Fender Telecaster is in transit Fed Ex on the way right now. It’s my birthday present. Now I’ll have a Telecaster and Stratocaster.

If you only read the first book, I would say that what he is saying about religion is probably not evident. The conclusion of Dune would give a different impression than the series as a whole would.

That being said, I’m not actually sure what he was saying about religion…

On another note, I really hate Rush. If they were a sci-fi novel, I’d give it up for sure. Something about Rush, Pink Flloyd, and a few others - they are all man-bands.

Though pink flloyd always makes me think about sheep, so that is ok.

 

[Mickey]

I ADORED Rush in high school.

Rush rocks!

Alex Lifeson inspired me as a guitarist and Neil Peart’s drumming is out of this world.

Pink Floyd is a bit of a downer so I can understand your apprehension with those cats. They tend to focus a lot on madness, abandonment, and dark themes.

A bit trippy, but Gilmour’s guitar phrasing is sweet!

I think Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and The Wall are legendary though.

Indeed!

That all being said, I’m principally a Toto and Yes fan.

It’s not Yes without Jon Anderson.

All this talk of music is making me salivate. My Fender Telecaster is in transit Fed Ex on the way right now. It’s my birthday present. Now I’ll have a Telecaster and Stratocaster.

Ah man, you’re killing me! I have a Strat, a vintage Les Paul, the first Ibanez guitar synth ever made, and a Charvel. The pride of my acoustic collection is my Taylor.

The only guitar I crave to own is a Telly! Why must you make me jealous on the forum?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I agree, Mick. From just about everyone I’ve ever met, it was always agreed that Rush kicks butooski!

I’m a huge Strat fan, too. But I just wanted something with a little dark edge tone as well as bright, vibrant twang so I found a great Tele on Ebay from a seller who has only owned the guitar for a year and played it about six hours worth then let it sit. I got it for $340 with shipping included. Those suckers are $499 new. This thing is immaculate, Lake Placid Blue. I’m going to remove the pick guard and replace it with a pearl white pick guard. Sweet. I love Fender. I’m no fan of Gibson really. Fender all the way. California classic sound.

You’re right about Gilmour. He’s not a fast player nor is he very versatile but his phrasing and range and choice of scales is cool. The most amazing guitarist I’ve ever seen live was Steve Lukather of Toto. Insanely talented. I’m a big Andy Summers (from the Police), Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, Jimmy Page fan. Page plays a dirty style but it’s cool. I’m not big on his Gibson sound. I like his early Tele sound better. I learned how to play “Ten Years Gone” about a month ago and was so pumped! LOL

Yes without Anderson is definitely a NO. I hear ya! Although “Drama” was a good album and that had Trevor Horn on vocals.

Rush rocks!

A bit trippy, but Gilmour’s guitar phrasing is sweet!
Indeed!
It’s not Yes without Jon Anderson.
Ah man, you’re killing me! I have a Strat, a vintage Les Paul, the first Ibanez guitar synth ever made, and a Charvel. The pride of my acoustic collection is my Taylor.

The only guitar I crave to own is a Telly! Why must you make me jealous on the forum?

 

[Mickey]

But I just wanted something with a little dark edge tone as well as bright, vibrant twang so I found a great Tele on Ebay from a seller who has only owned the guitar for a year and played it about six hours worth then let it sit. I got it for $340 with shipping included. Those suckers are $499 new. This thing is immaculate, Lake Placid Blue. I’m going to remove the pick guard and replace it with a pearl white pick guard. Sweet. I love Fender.

Oh that’s right…rub it in.

I’m no fan of Gibson really. Fender all the way. California classic sound.

I must say that I play my Strat almost exclusively. But when I am recording, and I want a different tone to offset the Strat, sometimes the Les Paul is just what the doctor ordered.

The most amazing guitarist I’ve ever seen live was Steve Lukather of Toto. Insanely talented.

Oh man! Talk about chops!!! :bowdown2:

I’m a big Andy Summers (from the Police), Steve Howe, Alex Lifeson, Jimmy Page fan.

I copied from them all. Finally got to see Summers a couple of years ago–he still jams!

I learned how to play “Ten Years Gone” about a month ago and was so pumped! LOL

That’s a fun one to play! I learned it 30 years ago. Am I that old?

Yes without Anderson is definitely a NO. I hear ya! Although “Drama” was a good album and that had Trevor Horn on vocals.

Forgot about “Drama”. I liked Horn’s vocals.

We’ve hijacked another one.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Ya gotta give props to Trevor Horn “I am a camera!”

I almost bought a new Les Paul Epiphone Standard in vintage sunburst but honestly it just felt uncomfortable and the tone wasn’t what I was looking for.

30 years ago…woah! I’m only 35! I was only five thirty years ago! LOL

I’m on a Stevie Ray Vaughan trip right now. “Leave my little girl alone” is just the greatest blues tune ever IMO

Oh that’s right…rub it in.
I must say that I play my Strat almost exclusively. But when I am recording, and I want a different tone to offset the Strat, sometimes the Les Paul is just what the doctor ordered.
Oh man! Talk about chops!!! :bowdown2:
I copied from them all. Finally got to see Summers a couple of years ago–he still jams!
That’s a fun one to play! I learned it 30 years ago. Am I that old?
Forgot about “Drama”. I liked Horn’s vocals.

We’ve hijacked another one.

 

[The_Sentry]

**The spice must flow.
**

I thought the first four were brilliant. I think not only the universe he created was amazing and extensive, I disagree with you that he was pretentious. I also think you’re wrong about his view on religion. Dune is about self-fullfilling prophecies and it explores the concept as to how a religion can manipulate a situation and appear prophetic, put machinery in place to dupe people and use the structures of said religion to gain power over people’s minds and politics. I think the way the missionaria protectiva of the Bene Gesserit plants little seeds of false prophecies across the galaxy is fascinating. Just in case they need to exploit the prophecy at a later date and use mythology for their own selfish purposes, the seed is there. It also explores prophecy as a loop. Paul, as Muad’dib, is really being manipulated by Jessica to dupe the populace of the fremen for mere survival purposes but instead, whether he realizes it or not, Paul’s Muad’dib figure becomes a real messianic figure and the spice envelopes his understandings guiding him into a prophetic history he didn’t plan on. That is how prophecy works. It’s static and we can’t escape our destiny. No matter how hard we try NOT to be pawns of prophecy, if prophecy is true, we are prisoners of fate.

I think it was brilliant.

As for not liking his imagined world, nobody said you have to like it. It’s not meant, necessarily to be liked, no? It’s a treatment of a future that is full of intrigue, familial dynastical quarreling, human beings coming out of a history that sold out to technology, and it’s a dystopia to some degree. I think it is more didactic than a “hope you like it!” series. Herbert was a passionate ecologist and the books, the first few at least, are heavily focused on ecosystems and the synergy of how ecosystems work. It’s cynical as to how humanity tries to manipulate the ecology of the planet and ends up shooting itself in the foot.

It’s also metaphorical with the spice representing oil and natural resources on earth. It explores addiction, manipulation of resources, corporate greed, on and on.

It’s unfortunate that you didn’t like the books. Your loss IMO.

I don’t see anything pretentious whatsoever in the series either.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Amen, brother. Thank goodness there’s another Arrakis fan around here!

**The spice must flow.
**

 

[JohnnyReb]

I agree, Mick. From just about everyone I’ve ever met, it was always agreed that Rush kicks butooski!

I’m a huge Strat fan, too. But I just wanted something with a little dark edge tone as well as bright, vibrant twang so I found a great Tele on Ebay from a seller who has only owned the guitar for a year and played it about six hours worth then let it sit. I got it for $340 with shipping included. Those suckers are $499 new. This thing is immaculate, Lake Placid Blue. I’m going to remove the pick guard and replace it with a pearl white pick guard. Sweet. I love Fender. I’m no fan of Gibson really. Fender all the way. California classic sound.

Whoa, nice dude. Strats are nice. Rush is good too, but I’m into METAL!!! Horns up. No I am not talking about devil horns either. Strats are better classic rock guitars IMO.

I used to play an Ibenez, which is a good metal guitar, but it got stolen. Thats what happens when you loan it to family and their house gets broken into. So now I have a Schecter, which I rarely play anymore since our band broke up years ago. I used to play in a “Christian Metal” band but we become more and more secular as we moved away from being a ministry with what we were doing.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I have an Ibanez Roadstar II. It was my first electric guitar. I got it when I was 14 years old. I wanted a white guitar like this fender I saw Adrian Smith play with Iron Maiden.

I like some metal bans. You have to like Maiden, Ratt, Dio, Priest, Ozzy, and the gang. But I hate a lot of the undertones of the bands. The sound, guitar grooves, and general feel is musically-addictive. I like playing with distortion.

I’m not a big fan of a lot of the newer guitar companies. Ibanez is ok. Steve Vai and Satriani swear by them. Like I said, I own one, but for years Ibanez was a rip-off company that just stole ideas and cloned other brands. I never liked that. Schecter is supposed to be a good brand. I don’t know much about 'em. I’m pretty much a strict Fender dude.

I like a few other guitars that are hollow-bodies like the Gibson ES-335 (BB King), Gibson ES 175 (Steve Howe’s axe), and the casino Gibsons like John Lennon played. Les Paul’s are fun, too, but like I said, I’m way more of a Fender dude. Can’t lose with 'em…

Whoa, nice dude. Strats are nice. Rush is good too, but I’m into METAL!!! Horns up. No I am not talking about devil horns either. Strats are better classic rock guitars IMO.

I used to play an Ibenez, which is a good metal guitar, but it got stolen. Thats what happens when you loan it to family and their house gets broken into. So now I have a Schecter, which I rarely play anymore since our band broke up years ago. I used to play in a “Christian Metal” band but we become more and more secular as we moved away from being a ministry with what we were doing.