Anglican church in Australia No Longer Has The Seal of Confession

[EvangelCatholic]

I don’t believe that one can generalize about Catholics and confession as you posted.

At my parish we have set times for confession everyday and on Sundays as on all other days we have confession before every Mass, so that is at least 5 times on Sunday. We also can make an appointment with the priest. There are always lines of people at every Mass who are making their confession.

I do agree that for many years people didn’t go to confession often, however, it seems that it has become used by more and more Catholics in the last few years.

God Bless

Bernadette

That may be anecdotal but I sincerely hope Catholics and all Christians return to private confession.

Here’s a study
cara.georgetown.edu/reconciliation.pdf

 

[Mystophilus]

You can make an appointment for private confession but there is no procedure to follow as in s Catholic confession. It might be seen as more like pastoral counseling.

I expect that there probably are Anglican churches in which this is true, but I have never seen one myself. Sections 266-289 here set out the CofE’s procedures.

 

[GKC]

I expect that there probably are Anglican churches in which this is true, but I have never seen one myself. Sections 266-289 here set out the CofE’s procedures.

The 1979 Episcopal Prayer Book has a structured form also. It is one of the points that book has in its favor.

GKC

 

[phil19034]

Keep in mind that Catholics don’t go to private confession very much anymore. The hours set aside for private confession in Catholic parishes has drastically declined over the years. Lutherans also encourage private confession, what we call ‘Holy Absolution’ and like Anglicans, maybe a fraction of parishioners avail themselves of the sacrament. There is public confession at the start of Mass in Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran parishes; that is now the norm.

Well… The Catholic Church teaches that we must receive Absolution via “private” confession whenever we have mortal sin. In the Catholic Church, “public” reconciliation only forgives our venial sins.

Unfortunately, Catholics who do not attend Confession are either not properly catechized, evangelized, and/or are being heretical. For me, I used to be both un-catechized and in-in-un-evangelized (but mainly un-catechized). Many (Catholics and Protestants alike) do not realized that Confession is very Biblical and do not understand the benefits it has (Spiritual even the Earthly benefits).

Anyway, it’s not fair to judge what Catholics believe based on the practices or beliefs of un-catechized or dissent Catholics. However, you can question the methods used to teach the Faith from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s. We are better at it today, but it will take a while to undo the damage.

God Bless

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Well… The Catholic Church teaches that we must receive Absolution via “private” confession whenever we have mortal sin. In the Catholic Church, “public” reconciliation only forgives our venial sins.

Unfortunately, Catholics who do not attend Confession are either not properly catechized, evangelized, and/or are being heretical. For me, I used to be both un-catechized and in-in-un-evangelized (but mainly un-catechized). Many (Catholics and Protestants alike) do not realized that Confession is very Biblical and do not understand the benefits it has (Spiritual even the Earthly benefits).

Anyway, it’s not fair to judge what Catholics believe based on the practices or beliefs of un-catechized or dissent Catholics. However, you can question the methods used to teach the Faith from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s. We are better at it today, but it will take a while to undo the damage.

God Bless

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Anglicans do not consider confession a sacrament…do they? So why would they go to a priest to confess?

The Vicar and I were actually talking about this very subject the other day for the Wednesday night service.

Within Anglicanism, you have more Protestant minded folk as well as more Anglo Catholic minded folk. It seems Aussie Land is going more towards the Protestant side of the scale. If I were not a believer in the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ and AS, I would become an Evangelical. When they start taking away from the historical beliefs of Anglicanism for in favor of a more Protestant appealing service, they kind of throw away the Anglican belief system that makes them ANGLICAN!

As far as the Seal of Confession being dropped, from talking with clergy in Aussie Land, the majority of “Anglicans” do not attend private confession anyways so that will cause an even more break in the Sacrament. They tend to want to be more like the Presbyterian tradition rather than the Anglican Tradition.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The Vicar and I were actually talking about this very subject the other day for the Wednesday night service.

Within Anglicanism, you have more Protestant minded folk as well as more Anglo Catholic minded folk. It seems Aussie Land is going more towards the Protestant side of the scale. If I were not a believer in the Eucharist as the body and blood of Christ and AS, I would become an Evangelical. When they start taking away from the historical beliefs of Anglicanism for in favor of a more Protestant appealing service, they kind of throw away the Anglican belief system that makes them ANGLICAN!

Why would you go anywhere, when you can believe or not believe the Eucharist is Christ, or believe or not believe AS and still be just as Anglican as the opposing believer? The Union Churches of North and South India believe, even within the same parishes, dioceses, etc. completely contradictory beliefs; its’ a wonder they haven’t disintegrated yet.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Why would you go anywhere, when you can believe or not believe the Eucharist is Christ, or believe or not believe AS and still be just as Anglican as the opposing believer? The Union Churches of North and South India believe, even within the same parishes, dioceses, etc. completely contradictory beliefs; its’ a wonder they haven’t disintegrated yet.

Syro,
All the Episcopalians/Anglicans i know or have come across believe in the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. We do not have a set doctrine that defines how is becomes such but the belief is still there. Of course there are some that do not such a belief in the Episcopal Church. Many are converts from a more fundamental Protestant tradition, while others just do not want to believe. The same can be found within Catholicism sadly.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Syro,
All the Episcopalians/Anglicans i know or have come across believe in the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. We do not have a set doctrine that defines how is becomes such but the belief is still there. Of course there are some that do not such a belief in the Episcopal Church. Many are converts from a more fundamental Protestant tradition, while others just do not want to believe. The same can be found within Catholicism sadly.

I was with the Church of South India for some years, the majority believe in a symbolic presence, I believe they teach this position officially in some parishes. This cannot be found in Catholicism legitimately, as Catholicism isn’t defined as loosely.

 

[aidanbradypop]

I was with the Church of South India for some years, the majority believe in a symbolic presence, I believe they teach this position officially in some parishes. This cannot be found in Catholicism legitimately, as Catholicism isn’t defined as loosely.

Well that is sad if true. The 1991 statement of the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission notes, “The elements are not mere signs; Christ’s body and blood become really present and are really given. But they are really present and given in order that, receiving them, believers may be united in communion with Christ the Lord.”

We do not claim to know how such a thing is possible. Your move Anglo Catholic folks tend to believe in transsubstantiation and for the majority of Anglicans, we just accept it as a wonderful gift ans mystery from God.

I fear we are off topic and i apologize.

 

[Indifferently]

I very much doubt that other Anglicans in other lands will follow the “Anglicans” of Australia.

Down under Anglicans tend to be very different from the rest of the Anglican communion. They are much more Calvinistic than the rest of Anglicanism. In fact I cannot begin to immagine an Aussie churchman availing himself to confession at all.

In Sydney a lot of people call their Archbishop 'the southern Baptist archbishop of Sydney. They have considered allowing lay people to celebrate the Holy Eucharist. And on the rare occasions when they do celebrate they bring in a “Lord’s Supper table” on wheels. It is rarely seen most of the time.

No you’re mixing up Sydney Anglicanism with the rest of Australian Anglicans. The Anglican hierarchy in Australia, just like every other western Anglican church, is liberal catholic in orientation. These are not Calvinists. I don’t even think they are Christians.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

No you’re mixing up Sydney Anglicanism with the rest of Australian Anglicans. The Anglican hierarchy in Australia, just like every other western Anglican church, is liberal catholic in orientation. These are not Calvinists. I** don’t even think they are Christians./**QUOTE]

Really?

 

[Indifferently]

Indifferently;12155691:

No you’re mixing up Sydney Anglicanism with the rest of Australian Anglicans. The Anglican hierarchy in Australia, just like every other western Anglican church, is liberal catholic in orientation. These are not Calvinists. I** don’t even think they are Christians./**

QUOTE]

Really?

Yes.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

EvangelCatholic;12156196:

Yes.

So what is a Christian?

 

[House_Harkonnen]

The Anglican church of Australia has decided that they will no longer permit the Seal of Confession, it can be broken whenever the minister decides the “sin” is very bad and will contact the authorities.

From following the Anglican Communion in Europe and the US I am sure that this will soon be allowed in every Anglican diocese.

Of course there are horrendous sins that many commit, however, I don’t believe that breaking the Seal of Confession will be helpful to the soul of the one who needs God’s forgiveness. I am sure there are many priests who suffer from knowledge of a sin if he does know who committed it. This is why until recently confession was done in an anonymous manner.

What comes next? Does the minister then need to ask who the sinner is or try to find out. Yes it is conflicting, however, this brings the government into the spiritual life of individuals and all churches which practice confession.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Why don’t they just skip the middle man and put microphones and bugs in the confessional, that why the police can hear all confessions and skip the personal judgment of the priest?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

No you’re mixing up Sydney Anglicanism with the rest of Australian Anglicans. The Anglican hierarchy in Australia, just like every other western Anglican church, is liberal catholic in orientation. These are not Calvinists. I don’t even think they are Christians.

One last comment since it is well after midnight.

So when I worship at St John the Divine cathedral here in New York, the Episcopalians around me are not really Christian? They bow to the processional crucific, genuflect to the altar, kneel in prayer, go up for holy Communion, greet others with the ‘Peace of God’. It’s amazing how some Christians just claim to be Christian when they really aren’t; isn’t it?

 

[Indifferently]

One last comment since it is well after midnight.

So when I worship at St John the Divine cathedral here in New York, the Episcopalians around me are not really Christian? They bow to the processional crucific, genuflect to the altar, kneel in prayer, go up for holy Communion, greet others with the ‘Peace of God’. It’s amazing how some Christians just claim to be Christian when they really aren’t; isn’t it?

Being a Christian is being united to God by faith in Jesus Christ. You can do plenty of ceremonial bits and even partake of the sacraments and still be an unbeliever. Think of the generation of Israelites God had led into the wilderness that never reached the promised land of Canaan because of their faithlessness. Think of those at Corinth (1 Cor. 11) who partook of the Lord’s Supper unworthily (without faith) and got sick or died.

There are plenty of people in the Episcopal Church who believe that Jesus Christ did not die to save them from their sins. By baptism, they may be outward members of the community, but inwardly and spiritually they are dead.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Being a Christian is being united to God by faith in Jesus Christ. You can do plenty of ceremonial bits and even partake of the sacraments and still be an unbeliever. Think of the generation of Israelites God had led into the wilderness that never reached the promised land of Canaan because of their faithlessness. Think of those at Corinth (1 Cor. 11) who partook of the Lord’s Supper unworthily (without faith) and got sick or died.

There are plenty of people in the Episcopal Church who believe that Jesus Christ did not die to save them from their sins. By baptism, they may be outward members of the community, but inwardly and spiritually they are dead.

So anyone who has doubts about the faith are not Christian? St Thomas, the apostle, blessed Mother Theresa come to mind. And you can look at a person in church and know they are phony?

 

[benjohnson]

So anyone who has doubts about the faith are not Christian? St Thomas, the apostle, blessed Mother Theresa come to mind. And you can look at a person in church and know they are phony?

If you read carefully, the observation was about the Anglican hierarchy in Australia - it’s entirely your hyperbole that extends the observation to an St. Thomas and Blessed Teresa.

Frankly, given a cursory overview of the the Anglican hierarchy in Australia - I would say they at least should be worried for leading their sheep astray.

Indifferently is in good company:

“It must be observed, however, that if the faith were endangered, a subject ought to rebuke his prelate even publicly.”
St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, II, q. 33, a. 45

 

[Indifferently]

Jesus says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 7:21). Jesus is saying that not everyone who says outwardly with their lips that Jesus is Lord believes the same inwardly.

We are not talking about those with doubts. We all have doubts. John Calvin says that we are all partially unbelievers till we die. However, an out-and-out false teacher is from Satan and not from God. The Anglican hierarchy in Australia have demonstrated by deeds that many of them are false teachers, and may indeed therefore be unbelievers.

As for Thomas the Apostle, he confessed Jesus to be “Lord and God” when he put his hand in the Lord’s side.