Anglican Church in North America Divides up Continent for Evangelism and 1,000 Church Plants

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HI Blue,

I hear ya. It’s a complicated mess. I’ve been struggling with church and where I belong in the grand scheme of things. My wife has as well. I am really more Catholic in most areas of theology and I tend to side with the popes historically on most things. I am VERY happy at my Anglican parish because the worship is beautiful, there’s wonderful fellowship, Bishop Schofield is the greatest, I love the prayer book, and I agree with several points of Anglican theology. But I do not agree with the 39 Articles or my rector’s view on the Calvinist approach to the Eucharist. I have plenty of Catholic guilt hanging on in other ways as well.
But on the Catholic side I can’t stand all the Catholic parishes in my entire area, the pastoral care sucks rocks, the priests are disappointing, I have serious disagreements with NFP and indulgences, purgatory, infallibility, some Marian areas, and I can read Martin Luther and like some things he has to say. So I can’t feel 100% at home in the Anglican world, can’t feel at home in the Catholic world. I’m a wandering gypsy of a Christian. The one thing I do know is my love for Christ is unwavering. I do feel a lot of stress, angst, and tiredness about the religious issues with which I struggle. You’re right, it’s tough to leave a local parish you really LOVE. I like my Anglican one but due to some doubts about Anglicanism and Catholicism yet appreciation for both I’m in one weird state. God bless you on whatever you end up doing!
Bluegoat said:
Reading this got me to thinking about my answers to the same question. I think my thinking is perhaps in this direction - the Church is not, or not primarily, a body constituted by it’s worldwide organization. It is in some real way constituted at the local level - each individual church, it seems to me, is The Church. My local parish church is a doctrinally and liturgically sound group, that I would say practices Christianity and Anglicanism faithfully, despite being part of a liberal diocese in the ACC. I am unhappy with the ACC and with my diocese, but why would I leave such a parish?

I have concerns about this situation - it is not good for a parish to have no real episcopal oversight, for example. But unless I come to the conclusion that the Anglican Church would be better off dying a quick death, or that it was never a Church in a real sense, I can’t see moving.

That being said, I’m more seriously looking at Orthodoxy because I get so frustrated with the ACC. But whether that will amount to anything substantial I don’t know.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
HI Blue,

I hear ya. It’s a complicated mess. I’ve been struggling with church and where I belong in the grand scheme of things. My wife has as well. I am really more Catholic in most areas of theology and I tend to side with the popes historically on most things. I am VERY happy at my Anglican parish because the worship is beautiful, there’s wonderful fellowship, Bishop Schofield is the greatest, I love the prayer book, and I agree with several points of Anglican theology. But I do not agree with the 39 Articles or my rector’s view on the Calvinist approach to the Eucharist. I have plenty of Catholic guilt hanging on in other ways as well.
But on the Catholic side I can’t stand all the Catholic parishes in my entire area, the pastoral care sucks rocks, the priests are disappointing, I have serious disagreements with NFP and indulgences, purgatory, infallibility, some Marian areas, and I can read Martin Luther and like some things he has to say. So I can’t feel 100% at home in the Anglican world, can’t feel at home in the Catholic world. I’m a wandering gypsy of a Christian. The one thing I do know is my love for Christ is unwavering. I do feel a lot of stress, angst, and tiredness about the religious issues with which I struggle. You’re right, it’s tough to leave a local parish you really LOVE. I like my Anglican one but due to some doubts about Anglicanism and Catholicism yet appreciation for both I’m in one weird state. God bless you on whatever you end up doing!
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gurneyhalleck1,

I can most definitely relate. I love my Episcopal Parish, but I have issues with the leadership of the Diocese, and the liberal moves of the Episcopal Presiding Bishop.

And TEC is truly a mess. I wonder how long so many people with such diverse beliefs can remain in “communion” with one another, much less remain in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

There are certainly days when Catholicism seems like the sane choice.

Anna
 
Hi Anna,

See my other reply to your post that is similar to this one.

God bless!
Anna_Scott said:
gurneyhalleck1,

I can most definitely relate. I love my Episcopal Parish, but I have issues with the leadership of the Diocese, and the liberal moves of the Episcopal Presiding Bishop.

And TEC is truly a mess. I wonder how long so many people with such diverse beliefs can remain in “communion” with one another, much less remain in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

There are certainly days when Catholicism seems like the sane choice.

Anna
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Anna_Scott said:
gurneyhalleck1,

I can most definitely relate. I love my Episcopal Parish, but I have issues with the leadership of the Diocese, and the liberal moves of the Episcopal Presiding Bishop.

And TEC is truly a mess. I wonder how long so many people with such diverse beliefs can remain in “communion” with one another, much less remain in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

There are certainly days when Catholicism seems like the sane choice.

Anna
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Hey nice to see you again Anna!! Finally get that computer fixed?

With regards to the problems you post here, I have to be honest when I wrote my first posting to my thread it was in the back of my mind. I didn’t say anything because well, I"m not interested in trying to just shoot down the anglican communion (though I’d love to see all of y’all come into full communion with us!!). But I think you’ve brought up one very significant problem, even if any headway can be made, then what will the end result be?

It’s not like the progressives in the church are going anywhere, and there’s no authority to provide backbone. Then of course from my view point, I see the evangelical roots also as being problematic potentially in another way. For my part, I will just pray that we will work to answer the prayers of Christ.

Great seeing you again Anna!
 
crazzeto said:
Hey nice to see you again Anna!! Finally get that computer fixed?

With regards to the problems you post here, I have to be honest when I wrote my first posting to my thread it was in the back of my mind. I didn’t say anything because well, I"m not interested in trying to just shoot down the anglican communion (though I’d love to see all of y’all come into full communion with us!!). But I think you’ve brought up one very significant problem, even if any headway can be made, then what will the end result be?

It’s not like the progressives in the church are going anywhere, and there’s no authority to provide backbone. Then of course from my view point, I see the evangelical roots also as being problematic potentially in another way. For my part, I will just pray that we will work to answer the prayers of Christ.

Great seeing you again Anna!
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crazzeto,

Good to talk with you again. I did get a computer! :compcoff:

I do see a huge problem in people with opposing views trying to remain “in communion” with one another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out–excruciating, but interesting nonetheless.

My conservative Episcopal Parish has been around for more than half a century, There are charter members there, who never dreamed such controversies as “same-sex” issues would arise in TEC. Our Parish continues on, ministering to one another, the community, and beyond. Nothing has changed there. When people read the news of ordinations of those in same-sex relationships; it’s difficult to imagine that there are conservative Parishes throughout TEC, that do not hold or practice these beliefs.

So, what is to be done? Should all conservatives leave TEC?

Some Episcopal Parishes are breaking with TEC. A Parish in our area did just that; but the break didn’t come without negative effects. They were an established Episcopal Church in a small town near us. The break tore the congregation apart. Some stayed in the Episcopal Church. Some left and met in a school and eventually bought a church not far from my Episcopal Parish. Those who broke away left the community they were serving. So, should they have stayed and worked for change within TEC? That’s a question none of us can answer. In fact, I think the answer to that question may not be the same for everyone.

crazzeto, I know you would like to see us come to the Catholic Church, and I love ya for it. 😉

Yesterday, Gurney made a really good point, when I was at my “wit’s end” over the TEC controversies.

Thread: Possible Elevation of Gay Bishop in Church of England Would Widen Anglican Split
gurneyhalleck1 said:
Hi Anna,

But the only thing I’d say about your last statement, is that an individual should thoroughly and deeply buy into Catholic theology before stepping into RCIA and signing up. Just running from a liberal Lutheran group or a liberal Episcopalian group to Catholicism isn’t the best reason to join up. . . . .
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You are right, crazzeto, authority is an issue, in that no one can dictate doctrine throughout the communion. But, I think attempting to remain in communion with those of opposing beliefs, will be the biggest challenge. If the Anglican Communion breaks down, we’ll have a bigger mess, with countless broke congregations and communities. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing in the long run . Sometimes separating the “wheat from the chaff” is precisely what we need.

Anna
 
I think all Christianity is going through perilous times right now, Anna. Anglicanism has a heap of issues with differing opinions under one roof, but you have to remember that Anglicanism and Catholicism BOTH have priests, bishops, and rogues all over the place believing outlandish stuff. It’s all in how they deal with it.

I’ve said before in here my metaphor of a drunken grandmother. Both Churches are like families. In the Catholic family, they have a drunken crazy grandmother who cusses, vomits, yells, rants, raves, and is generally embarrassing. The Catholics are good at hiding grandma in the cellar so nobody knows about her. But occasionally she gets out.

The Anglicans let grandma stay on the top floor and go about all day long shouting at the top of her lungs. They get embarrassed a whole lot more.

But both have granny! 😛

Catholicism is loaded with pedophiles, guys like Hans Kung who are uber liberal, Notre Dame and Georgetown types, liberal priests in the seminaries who deny the resurrection and Marian dogmas and want women priests. I know this because I have heard it constantly from seminarians. How many unorthodox Catholic priests in the U.S. are ok with birth control and remarriage and divorce, etc.? There are conservative, old-school, traditional catholics and there are social justice super libs.

Anglicanism has less unity, no doubt. But it’s very open and above board, easy to see. The Anglican Church has a lot of credibility issues and the Catholic Church for the last decade has been a P.R. nightmare and has allowed unconscionable acts and turns a blind eye to heterodox bishops and priests who say and do nutty things.

That’s just my two cents. Now I’ll duck and wear my helmet as I get blasted! Incoming!!! :eek:
Anna_Scott said:
crazzeto,

Good to talk with you again. I did get a computer! :compcoff:

I do see a huge problem in people with opposing views trying to remain “in communion” with one another. It will be interesting to see how this plays out–excruciating, but interesting nonetheless.

My conservative Episcopal Parish has been around for more than half a century, There are charter members there, who never dreamed such controversies as “same-sex” issues would arise in TEC. Our Parish continues on, ministering to one another, the community, and beyond. Nothing has changed there. When people read the news of ordinations of those in same-sex relationships; it’s difficult to imagine that there are conservative Parishes throughout TEC, that do not hold or practice these beliefs.

So, what is to be done? Should all conservatives leave TEC?

Some Episcopal Parishes are breaking with TEC. A Parish in our area did just that; but the break didn’t come without negative effects. They were an established Episcopal Church in a small town near us. The break tore the congregation apart. Some stayed in the Episcopal Church. Some left and met in a school and eventually bought a church not far from my Episcopal Parish. Those who broke away left the community they were serving. So, should they have stayed and worked for change within TEC? That’s a question none of us can answer. In fact, I think the answer to that question may not be the same for everyone.

crazzeto, I know you would like to see us come to the Catholic Church, and I love ya for it. 😉

Yesterday, Gurney made a really good point, when I was at my “wit’s end” over the TEC controversies.

Thread: Possible Elevation of Gay Bishop in Church of England Would Widen Anglican Split

You are right, crazzeto, authority is an issue, in that no one can dictate doctrine throughout the communion. But, I think attempting to remain in communion with those of opposing beliefs, will be the biggest challenge. If the Anglican Communion breaks down, we’ll have a bigger mess, with countless broke congregations and communities. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing in the long run . Sometimes separating the “wheat from the chaff” is precisely what we need.

Anna
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
I think all Christianity is going through perilous times right now, Anna. Anglicanism has a heap of issues with differing opinions under one roof, but you have to remember that Anglicanism and Catholicism BOTH have priests, bishops, and rogues all over the place believing outlandish stuff. It’s all in how they deal with it.

I’ve said before in here my metaphor of a drunken grandmother. Both Churches are like families. In the Catholic family, they have a drunken crazy grandmother who cusses, vomits, yells, rants, raves, and is generally embarrassing. The Catholics are good at hiding grandma in the cellar so nobody knows about her. But occasionally she gets out.

The Anglicans let grandma stay on the top floor and go about all day long shouting at the top of her lungs. They get embarrassed a whole lot more.

But both have granny! 😛

Catholicism is loaded with pedophiles, guys like Hans Kung who are uber liberal, Notre Dame and Georgetown types, liberal priests in the seminaries who deny the resurrection and Marian dogmas and want women priests. I know this because I have heard it constantly from seminarians. How many unorthodox Catholic priests in the U.S. are ok with birth control and remarriage and divorce, etc.? There are conservative, old-school, traditional catholics and there are social justice super libs.

Anglicanism has less unity, no doubt. But it’s very open and above board, easy to see. The Anglican Church has a lot of credibility issues and the Catholic Church for the last decade has been a P.R. nightmare and has allowed unconscionable acts and turns a blind eye to heterodox bishops and priests who say and do nutty things.

That’s just my two cents. Now I’ll duck and wear my helmet as I get blasted! Incoming!!! :eek:
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Well, gurneyhalleck1, I can tell you are fully recovered. lol. One of the things I appreciate about you, is your blunt approach in expressing your thoughts on a subject. At least we don’t have to guess how you feel about something.

I agree that we all have a crazy granny.

Actually, I really had to exercise some self restraint, after reading wisdomseeker’s post on the other thread: Possible Elevation of Gay Bishop in Church of England Would Widen Anglican Split:
wisdomseeker said:
you dont buy into the CC, the 2000 yrs old Church foung by Christ, yet you buy into a religion found by a rebelious ex Catholic Henry the VIII who broke away from the Church to commit sin.
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No doubt there are sinful acts going on in both camps. However, when I read yet another horror story about Catholic Priest pedophiles; I don’t assume this is the behavior of all Catholics. And I don’t tell Catholics to leave their Church to get away from “sin” in the Catholic Church. I still respect the beliefs of my Catholic friends, and I still respect Catholicism.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, it’s tough dealing with crazy granny where ever she resides. Great metaphor BTW. I agree there are rogue priests and bishops in both Anglicanism and Catholicism. I think it is tougher in Anglicanism, because there is such a wide spectrum of beliefs among people who are supposed to be “in communion” with one another. In Catholicism the Holy See can identify “rogue” theology and separate it from orthodoxy.

Anna
 
You ought to meet my grandma…I need therapy after all the drama and wackiness that lady comes up with…she’s a lulu LOL
Anna_Scott said:
Well, gurneyhalleck1, I can tell you are fully recovered. lol. One of the things I appreciate about you, is your blunt approach in expressing your thoughts on a subject. At least we don’t have to guess how you feel about something.

I agree that we all have a crazy granny.

Actually, I really had to exercise some self restraint, after reading wisdomseeker’s post on the other thread: Possible Elevation of Gay Bishop in Church of England Would Widen Anglican Split:

No doubt there are sinful acts going on in both camps. However, when I read yet another horror story about Catholic Priest pedophiles; I don’t assume this is the behavior of all Catholics. And I don’t tell Catholics to leave their Church to get away from “sin” in the Catholic Church. I still respect the beliefs of my Catholic friends, and I still respect Catholicism.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, it’s tough dealing with crazy granny where ever she resides. Great metaphor BTW. I agree there are rogue priests and bishops in both Anglicanism and Catholicism. I think it is tougher in Anglicanism, because there is such a wide spectrum of beliefs among people who are supposed to be “in communion” with one another. In Catholicism the Holy See can identify “rogue” theology and separate it from orthodoxy.

Anna
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Anna_Scott said:
You two made me laugh. :rotfl::rotfl:

I really picked a great time to start attending an Episcopal Church. We need to keep crazy granny out of the news for awhile.

Anna
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We do. Maybe with God’s help, we can. Or at least we can try to show that there’s more to us than that, and that we aren’t all ultra-radicals. If ever there was a time to call upon the name of the Lord, this is it.
 
The Episcopalians have a Dawn of the Dead level problem. There are an army of zombie grannies taking over the mall. And only a few conservatives are left in the mall with only so much ammo left. Some are just opting to do what Francine and Peter did at the end of the film—take the helicopter and fly the heck out of there to greener pastures! LOL And some are staying in the mall to battle hordes of the undead LOL

I got tired of the granny analogy I cooked up. I’ve been on a marathon of George Romero “Dead” movies lately. Thought I’d change it up LOL! 😃
Anna_Scott said:
You two made me laugh. :rotfl::rotfl:

I really picked a great time to start attending an Episcopal Church. We need to keep crazy granny out of the news for awhile.

Anna
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So now it’s Anglicans recruiting eh? Well strictly speaking I have a faith, but like every man, I also have my price. What sort of signing bonus are they offering? And I want a promise, backed in good faith money, of a bishop’s miter in 10 years time, even for some backwater congregations somewhere. Even in the fell rackets of simony one has to pay one’s dues. I’m not greedy or unrealistic, but I won’t be a field hand in this new plantation of yours. Give me a ring, your eminences, and we’ll get this sorted out. We’ll get you your 1,000 “plants” and I’ll get such consideration as befits a gentleman of my standing. Christ called on us to be each other’s brothers after all, and one brother’s hand surely must wash another if Christian mercy is to mean anything…👍
 
Anna_Scott said:
gurneyhalleck1,

I can most definitely relate. I love my Episcopal Parish, but I have issues with the leadership of the Diocese, and the liberal moves of the Episcopal Presiding Bishop.

And TEC is truly a mess. I wonder how long so many people with such diverse beliefs can remain in “communion” with one another, much less remain in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury.

There are certainly days when Catholicism seems like the sane choice.

Anna
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and i for one would love that anna. but stay strong. it may be your Communion and mine will unify without you having to make that decision. that would be awesome. and i would love THAT even more. to see our two communions come together and reach consensus in our lifetime would truly be a sweet miracle. whos next? the Lutherans? always possible. and that would tickle me pink! it is good to see the Children of God reconcile. Peace to you and prayers for the guidance of your Pastors. 🙂 :hug1: and you get a hug!🙂
 
benidict said:
and i for one would love that anna. but stay strong. it may be your Communion and mine will unify without you having to make that decision. that would be awesome. and i would love THAT even more. to see our two communions come together and reach consensus in our lifetime would truly be a sweet miracle. whos next? the Lutherans? always possible. and that would tickle me pink! it is good to see the Children of God reconcile. Peace to you and prayers for the guidance of your Pastors. 🙂 :hug1: and you get a hug!🙂
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Benidict,
That’s probably the first CAF hug given to anyone associated with the Episcopal Church. 😃 Thank you!

I, too, would love to see our communions unite. I’m still considering Catholicism, but many obstacles remain.

Peace to you and prayers for the guidance of your Pastors, also,

Anna
 
If memory serves, weren’t they called The Protestant Episcopal Church of the United States of America for most of the time in U.S. history?
GKC said:
Not exclusively, but generally, yes.

GKC
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