Anglican Holy Orders

[FrDavid96]

We won’t know that until January 1, 2012 when the erection of the Ordinariate is announced. I know that all the Anglicans and Anglican Use priests and laity are anxiously waiting to hear who the Ordinarary will be. It seems many have their favorites, however, the Holy Spirit will be the One who makes the final decision, or at least that is my understanding of how God works.

God Bless

Bernadette

The timing here is interesting. According to the USCCB website, the Ordinariate itself will be canonically established (erected) on 1 January 2012. But it also says that the Ordinary will be announced on that same day. That’s rather an odd way of doing things. Usually, when a new diocese is erected, the new bishop is announced well ahead of time. After all, it is a strange thing to establish a new diocese, and on the first day, that diocese is a vacant see.

So either we will see the establishment of the Ordinariate without an Ordinary–again, a very strange thing; or the Ordinary will be installed on the same day, but no one but a select few will know ahead of time who he will be–likewise, a very strange thing.

Perhaps, Cardinal Wuerl will be the administrator of the Ordinariate until an actual Ordinary is installed? Just speculation.

I do hope that they will announce the Ordinary at least a few days ahead of time, because not doing so would be awkward.

It’s also odd that we don’t know anything else about the Ordinariate. Maybe it just wasn’t posted on the USCCB website?

It would be “nice” if someone would tell the public such things as the patronal saint, the name of the Ordinariate, and the principle city (I don’t think it’s called a “see”). Oh well.

 

[BernadetteM]

The timing here is interesting. According to the USCCB website, the Ordinariate itself will be canonically established (erected) on 1 January 2012. But it also says that the Ordinary will be announced on that same day. That’s rather an odd way of doing things. Usually, when a new diocese is erected, the new bishop is announced well ahead of time. After all, it is a strange thing to establish a new diocese, and on the first day, that diocese is a vacant see.

So either we will see the establishment of the Ordinariate without an Ordinary–again, a very strange thing; or the Ordinary will be installed on the same day, but no one but a select few will know ahead of time who he will be–likewise, a very strange thing.

Perhaps, Cardinal Wuerl will be the administrator of the Ordinariate until an actual Ordinary is installed? Just speculation.

I do hope that they will announce the Ordinary at least a few days ahead of time, because not doing so would be awkward.

It’s also odd that we don’t know anything else about the Ordinariate. Maybe it just wasn’t posted on the USCCB website?

It would be “nice” if someone would tell the public such things as the patronal saint, the name of the Ordinariate, and the principle city #I don’t think it’s called a “see”#. Oh well.

Fr. David,

I am not positive, but I think that the English Ordinary was announced on the same day as the erection and also the name of the Ordinariate.

I too wish that more of the public had been informed of this, as there are many within some of the Continuing Anglican groups and TEC, probably more like most, who know nothing about it. Although Rome has not been promoting it, they have been much better at informing the media and others than the Anglicans who wish it would just die or not be successful. You would be surprised at the anger and bitterness that has come out towards those entering the Ordinariate and the Catholic Church, even by those who claim to be “catholic”, just not under the Pope. This wonderful opportunity for Anglicans has brought out the truth of where many of those who claim to be part of the Catholic Church, must either take steps to enter it or admit that they are just another Protestant denomination. The Anglican Communion, TEC and many of the Continuing groups proclaim they stand by the 39 Articles in the Book of Common Prayer, if one reads those articles, they are anti catholic towards the seven sacraments, except they recognize the Lords Supper and Baptism. I am not sure but recall the word “romish” is used. From my understanding the Lords Supper, the Body and Blood are taken by “faith”, whatever that means, I gather one could interpret it anyway they choose.

I find no fault with those who chose to stay Anglicans, just be honest with themselves that except for some within the Anglican Communion or Continuing groups, neither the Catholic Church nor the Orthodox accept their orders as valid, except in specific cases.

Rome has been very charitable towards those priests entering and have not asked that they renounce their former ordinations and credit them for all the time they have spent as priest within the Anglican Communion.

What I find as amazing is that during my early days as a member of TEC, my family and the parishioners considered themselves protestant. Although Anglo Catholics have always considered themselves as Catholic.

I don’t see unity in the future between the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion. The Ordinariate is the answer to unity and will be accepted by those who truely believe that the Church was founded upon Peter and continues under his leadership today.

There is another parish who just announced that they are coming into the Ordinariate and it appears it will be a slow process as one by one groups and individuals make the decision.

I say this all with charity towards my former brothers and sisters and understand that one must go where they feel the Holy Spirit is leading them.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Chatter163]

I think that it is precisely out of ecumenical concerns for Catholic/Anglican relations that the entire Ordinariate is being handled in a very low-key manner. Some on the Anglican side see the Pope as kicking an already-down church by creating the Ordinariate, even though it was in response to a request by Traditional Anglicans.

The decision to join will be made on a group-by-group basis. In the USA, only a relatively small number of groups will join from TEC, while most will come from the Continuing Anglican groups, who had already left TEC long ago. Even there, there will be those who stay behind and those who do not, though over time (beyond our lifetimes) the number may be more substantial. In the UK, the situation is largely reversed, where the larger number will come from the established C of E, and fewer will come from the Continuing Church (hereafter CC); they do not have nearly the number of CC jurisdictions that we do here. But still, the same “some will go, others not” applies.

I wondered if the Ordinary might be Fr. Christopher Phillips of Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio, a former TEC priest who has served in the Anglican Provision almost since there was one. He has been particularly involved in the AO process here. Another possibility is Keith Ackerman, former TEC bishop of Quincy, IL, who withdrew his diocese from TEC in 2008 and joined a CC jurisdiction. He is the President of Forward in Faith, and his term expires in 2012. Could Cardinal Wuehrl be keeping the seat (or, in this case, see) warm until Bishop Ackerman’s term is over?

Two other names that surface are also former TEC bishops, Jack Iker, former TEC Bishop of Fort Worth, who withdrew with a large portion of his TEC diocese in 2008, now part of the CC, and John-David Schofield, former TEC Bishop of San Joaquin, also a CC now, but at 73, he may not wish to pioneer a new jurisdictional entity.

Since Fr. Phillips is an RC pastor of long-standing with much Anglican know-how, I’ll place my bet on him.

 

[BernadetteM]

I think that it is precisely out of ecumenical concerns for Catholic/Anglican relations that the entire Ordinariate is being handled in a very low-key manner. Some on the Anglican side see the Pope as kicking an already-down church by creating the Ordinariate, even though it was in response to a request by Traditional Anglicans.

The decision to join will be made on a group-by-group basis. In the USA, only a relatively small number of groups will join from TEC, while most will come from the Continuing Anglican groups, who had already left TEC long ago. Even there, there will be those who stay behind and those who do not, though over time (beyond our lifetimes) the number may be more substantial. In the UK, the situation is largely reversed, where the larger number will come from the established C of E, and fewer will come from the Continuing Church (hereafter CC); they do not have nearly the number of CC jurisdictions that we do here. But still, the same “some will go, others not” applies.

I wondered if the Ordinary might be Fr. Christopher Phillips of Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio, a former TEC priest who has served in the Anglican Provision almost since there was one. He has been particularly involved in the AO process here. Another possibility is Keith Ackerman, former TEC bishop of Quincy, IL, who withdrew his diocese from TEC in 2008 and joined a CC jurisdiction. He is the President of Forward in Faith, and his term expires in 2012. Could Cardinal Wuehrl be keeping the seat (or, in this case, see) warm until Bishop Ackerman’s term is over?

Two other names that surface are also former TEC bishops, Jack Iker, former TEC Bishop of Fort Worth, who withdrew with a large portion of his TEC diocese in 2008, now part of the CC, and John-David Schofield, former TEC Bishop of San Joaquin, also a CC now, but at 73, he may not wish to pioneer a new jurisdictional entity.

Since Fr. Phillips is an RC pastor of long-standing with much Anglican know-how, I’ll place my bet on him.

Except for Fr. Phillips, I have never heard any of the men you mentioned as possibilities. There are two others who people feel might be chosen.

I don’t think it will be a priest or former Bishop who has not had that much experience within both the Catholic Church and the Anglican church, whether TEC or a continuing group.

Many feel the that Fr. Phillips would make a wonderful Ordinary with all his experience and pastoral abilities, besides running a large parish and school. From my perspective it is best not to count on one in particular as the Holy Spirit is in command. Like anything else in life it can be a great dissappointment when our choices are not Gods.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Chatter163]

Many feel the that Fr. Phillips would make a wonderful Ordinary with all his experience and pastoral abilities, besides running a large parish and school. From my perspective it is best not to count on one in particular as the Holy Spirit is in command. Like anything else in life it can be a great dissappointment when our choices are not Gods.

Agreed. I was simply offering possible names. I will be pleased with anyone, I am sure.

 

[MarkBrown]

On a side note, the US bishops voted at their recent conference in Baltimore to establish an Ordinature effective Jan 1, 2012.

Subject to approval by the Holy See and the appointment of a bishop (again by the Holy See).

That should be forthcoming, as the bishops were acting on a proposal from Rome when they voted.

So while it is still in the ‘potential’ stage ( ala Aquinas ), it is nearing actuality.

communio.stblogs.org/2011/11/anglican-ordinariate-for-us-to.html

Point of order Brendan,

The US Bishops did not vote to establish the Ordinariate. Cardinal Wuerl read the announcement from the Pope that the Ordinariate would be established in the United States on Jan 1, 2012. Cardinal Wuerls job was to gather information on numbers of clergy and laity who would opt to enter the Ordinariate. The Bishops have little (name removed by moderator)ut on the establishment of the Ordinariate in the UK, US, Canada or Australia. They gather information and send it to Rome. Rome makes the decision and informs the Bishops of what is happening and the expectations of the Holy Father in regards to how the Bishops are to help the Ordinariate form. Rome approves the priests and appoints the Bishops/Ordinaries.

 

[MarkBrown]

This may, of course, happen when an individual former Protestant minister may be received in to the Catholic Church and wants to become a priest. I don’t doubt it. When the Ordinariate was established in England a significant number of Anglican ministers were ordained as Catholic priests when they came in to the Catholic Church. They did not, as far as I’m aware, undertake a fast-track seminary course.

All Anglican Clergy accepted for ordination will have to undergo a formation class. In the UK the priests began the class prior to ordination to Deacon and since Ordination to the priesthood they are still undergoing formation. How long the formation takes is based upon the qualifications of the the individual former Anglican priest.

As to Lutherans and other protestants, they will either enter through the Pastoral provision or the Ordinariate. I know some Lutherans are looking to enter the Ordinariate upon approval of Rome.

Again the length of time is based upon the individual former protestant minister.

 

[MarkBrown]

The timing here is interesting. According to the USCCB website, the Ordinariate itself will be canonically established (erected) on 1 January 2012. But it also says that the Ordinary will be announced on that same day. That’s rather an odd way of doing things. Usually, when a new diocese is erected, the new bishop is announced well ahead of time. After all, it is a strange thing to establish a new diocese, and on the first day, that diocese is a vacant see.

So either we will see the establishment of the Ordinariate without an Ordinary–again, a very strange thing; or the Ordinary will be installed on the same day, but no one but a select few will know ahead of time who he will be–likewise, a very strange thing.

Perhaps, Cardinal Wuerl will be the administrator of the Ordinariate until an actual Ordinary is installed? Just speculation.

I do hope that they will announce the Ordinary at least a few days ahead of time, because not doing so would be awkward.

It’s also odd that we don’t know anything else about the Ordinariate. Maybe it just wasn’t posted on the USCCB website?

It would be “nice” if someone would tell the public such things as the patronal saint, the name of the Ordinariate, and the principle city (I don’t think it’s called a “see”). Oh well.

IN the UK the Ordinariate was announced to be estblished about 3 months ahead. There was only guessing at who the Ordinary would be. ONe of the “flying Bishops” seeking to enter the Church or a former Anglican priest who had been ordained a Catholic priest. On Jan 1 2011 the Ordinariate was established and the Ordinary named. He was then confirmed, ordained deacon, ordained priest in the span of 3 weeks. Then during Lent the Anglican clergy and parishes that were entering the Church were recieved/confirmed and the clergy entered a period of formation that saw ordination ot the priesthood starting at Pentecost (also the parishes were fully recieved having finished their formation/catechism). Through out the rest of early summer all the Anglican priests were ordained. Some are still receiving training even after ordination.

They are now preparing to recieve the second wave of clergy and laity.

IN the States, On Jan 1 2012 the US ordinariate will be formally established. The Ordinary announced. Those anglican clergy who have been approved will hopefully begin their formation. The formation program has been created and is ready. How it will be implemented is still uncleared. In the States the reception of anglican clergy and laity will be continuous as there appears to be more clergy for Rome to review. Also parishes and groups inthe States are in various stages of being ready to enter the Church. An ANCA parish in Forth Worth, TX has just announced it is seeking to enter the Ordianariate when established. They are now going through the proceedures their canons require. By Dec 18 they will vote to see who will enter and I think who will get the building and thus inherit the TEC lawsuit over the property.

There are former Anglican priests in the Church who have been very active in establishing
the Ordinariate. They know the ins and outs of the Ordinariate, people involved, politics etc. They would be able to quickly and easily step into the Ordinary shoes.

As to the patron and seat of the ordinary…many who are waiting to enter the ordinariate have the same desires to know as you. Many Saints are being banterd about on the net and I think Texas will be the center of the Ordinariate for now. Due to the AU and Anglo-catholic presence there. There are more established AU parishes in Texas. But it could be anywhere.

 

[MarkBrown]

I think that it is precisely out of ecumenical concerns for Catholic/Anglican relations that the entire Ordinariate is being handled in a very low-key manner. Some on the Anglican side see the Pope as kicking an already-down church by creating the Ordinariate, even though it was in response to a request by Traditional Anglicans.

The decision to join will be made on a group-by-group basis. In the USA, only a relatively small number of groups will join from TEC, while most will come from the Continuing Anglican groups, who had already left TEC long ago. Even there, there will be those who stay behind and those who do not, though over time (beyond our lifetimes) the number may be more substantial. In the UK, the situation is largely reversed, where the larger number will come from the established C of E, and fewer will come from the Continuing Church (hereafter CC); they do not have nearly the number of CC jurisdictions that we do here. But still, the same “some will go, others not” applies.

I wondered if the Ordinary might be Fr. Christopher Phillips of Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio, a former TEC priest who has served in the Anglican Provision almost since there was one. He has been particularly involved in the AO process here. Another possibility is Keith Ackerman, former TEC bishop of Quincy, IL, who withdrew his diocese from TEC in 2008 and joined a CC jurisdiction. He is the President of Forward in Faith, and his term expires in 2012. Could Cardinal Wuehrl be keeping the seat (or, in this case, see) warm until Bishop Ackerman’s term is over?

Two other names that surface are also former TEC bishops, Jack Iker, former TEC Bishop of Fort Worth, who withdrew with a large portion of his TEC diocese in 2008, now part of the CC, and John-David Schofield, former TEC Bishop of San Joaquin, also a CC now, but at 73, he may not wish to pioneer a new jurisdictional entity.

Since Fr. Phillips is an RC pastor of long-standing with much Anglican know-how, I’ll place my bet on him.

Bishop Ackerman is on record as rejecting the Ordinariate. When I was in the ACNA we thought he would be eager to go. He does not appear so. He is a Bishop in the ACNA. Forward in the Faith USA has not made overt noise about entering the Ordinariate.

Bishop Iker is a no go. Bishop Iker is committed to the ACNA for now. But the ACNA does have inner tensions, who know is the future he may. I would be very surprised if he came into the ordinariate.

Bishop Schofield is a retired ACNA Bishop. He has medical problems that lead to his retirement. He is also a committed ACNA Bishop. From my contacts he is not interested int he Ordinariate.

Speculation on Ordinariate websites does not mention these names, except for Fr. Phillips. I know there is strong support from those entering the Ordinariate for Fr. Phillips. He has been very active in getting and holding anglicans and AU parishes ready for the Ordinariate. My humble opinion without Fr. Phillips we would not be looking at the level of success we are seeing with the Ordinariate. Most if not all the Anglican Clergy entering the ordinariate has his telephone number on speed dial. He has helped form missions and talked with parishes. He is even helping, materially the UK ordinariate.

If it was on merit, it would be Father Phillips. But all is speculation and guess work or just a wish list.

 

[dochawk]

.

A further complication is that various schismatic groups - in particular the “Old Catholic” churches who subscribed to the Union of Utrecht - are in communion with the Anglican Churches, but have orders that are recognised as valid by Rome. Many Anglican priests have been ordained at ceremonies where one of those presiding was an “Old Catholic” bishop making their orders putatively valid (although not for women)

The Ultrecht Communion has lost the understanding of the ordained clergy. I presume this means that their bishops can no longer validly ordain clergy. (a couple of years ago,they started purporting to ordain women. As a consequence, the PNC broke comma Nikon).