Anglican Ordinariates - liturgy

[twf]

Does anyone know if there are any plans for the Ordinariates to use the existing Anglican Use Catholic Book of Divine Worship when celebrating the holy sacrifice? Or is a completely new adapation in the works? I believe that at present the Ordinariate in the UK is still primarily using the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Does anyone know if there are any plans for the Ordinariates to use the existing Anglican Use Catholic Book of Divine Worship when celebrating the holy sacrifice? Or is a completely new adapation in the works? I believe that at present the Ordinariate in the UK is still primarily using the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

You are correct about the UK ordinariate. They are using the Roman Rite. There was no situation in the UK similar to the one in the US where there was an Anglican Use. The UK ordinariate is working with the Holy See to develop a suitable liturgy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

It is my understanding that in the United States they will use the Catholic Book of Divine Worship.

That is what was used this past weekend at St Luke’s in Maryland, this was the first Catholic liturgy held there as the Sunday before the whole parish was received into the Catholic Church at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Digitonomy]

1. Why are the non-US Anglican Ordinariates not simply using the Book of Divine Worship on an interim basis? Are there objectionable features?
2. Are there plans for a universal English liturgy in the near future, or will each province go its own way? If the former, are they doing an AO version of the lengthy ICEL ordeal of recent years?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

1. The Book of Divine Worship was only ever approved for US Anglican Use parishes.
2. It is my understanding that the UK ordinariate is working on its own liturgy with the Holy See.

 

[BernadetteM]

Actually the liturgy for all the Ordinariates is in the hands of a committe in Rome.

Former Anglican Bishops and priests and also some who are waiting to be received into the Ordinariate are making their suggestions to Rome.

It is a complicated matter, as Anglicans have always used different liturgies within the Anglican Communion.

The ones I know in the US are promoting a liturgy using one of the Anglican Missals which include the Anglican prayers. These liturgies are very close to the EF in many ways. Including the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar and the Last Gospel.

Only time will tell. Hopefully the committee will use the (name removed by moderator)ut of these former Anglicans to heart before making their final decision. All this takes time and in the meantime in the US, I believe, that once the Ordinariate is established they will use the BDW in the interim.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[jordananglo]

Actually the liturgy for all the Ordinariates is in the hands of a committe in Rome…

Bernadette

Yes, Bernadette is right. The BDW is unsatisfactory in many ways, and what we hear is that there are new books in the works now. The details about what will be in them is still unknown. You can gleam some of the thinking behind the scene from the talk of Aiden Nichols:

ordinariateportal.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/aidan-nichols-the-ordinariates-the-pope-and-the-liturgy-part-iii/

and the paper of Andrew Burnham:

ordinariateportal.wordpress.com/2011/10/15/mgr-andrew-burnham-liturgical-patrimony-of-the-ordinariate-and-the-reform-of-the-reform/

In that talk and paper, they are referring to the English use (not yet published). I understand there is also an effort being made for the US, Canada and Australia. In the future, there is a desire for a single international use of the Ordinariates, but this will take a few years at least to materialize.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Yes, Bernadette is right. The BDW is unsatisfactory in many ways,

I would be interested in hearing how the BDW is unsatisfactory.

I know that the Anglican Use communities at the time had a hand is creating it and they seemed to receive it well.

 

[jordananglo]

I would be interested in hearing how the BDW is unsatisfactory.

I know that the Anglican Use communities at the time had a hand is creating it and they seemed to receive it well.

Hello. Fr. Christopher Phillips, one of the founding priests of the AU, and a member on the BDW committee back in the 1980s recently gave a talk outlining these shortcomings, which I believe are commonly felt. My own tastes and proclivities are towards the Missal tradition within Anglo-Catholicism.

theanglocatholic.com/2011/10/some-thoughts-about-the-ordinariate-liturgy/

Here is a portion of the talk:

"Within a short time after beginning our work, it became clear that there were three positions developing within the committee. There was the position (certainly my position) that all of the Anglican Missal tradition should be approved; there was the position that none of the Anglican Missal tradition should be approved; and there was the position that we should pick and choose, incorporating bits and pieces of the Book of Common Prayer.

The Book of Divine Worship which resulted shows much of the strain we experienced within the committee. It is marked by evidence of necessary compromise and committee decisions. There is some evidence of the Missal tradition; however, there is even more evidence of the desire by many on the committee to jettison that tradition, and to make this a liturgy more contemporary in its style, which meant that much of the source material was taken from the 1979 Book of Common Prayer – a version of the Prayer Book which none of us who had made the initial request had ever even used.

In some ways, the Book of Divine Worship is an unsatisfying book, easily criticized by those on both banks of the Tiber. In some important instances, it is incomplete. There is a jarring mixture of linguistic styles within it. It has the feeling of being a “cut and paste” document, because, in a very real sense, it is exactly that. Bits of the 1928 Book of Common Prayer have been joined with pieces of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. The Offertory Rite from the modern Roman rite has been inserted. The Gregorian Canon has been lifted out of the traditional English Missal, and inserted as an alternate form of the First Eucharistic Prayer, but it bears the marks of some ICEL adaptations in the words of institution, and with the Mysterium Fidei separated from its tradition place. Even such things as the magnificent Prayer of Humble Access – so much a part of our traditional preparation before receiving Holy Communion – is in a truncated version, quite different from its more traditional and familiar form."

Hope this sheds some light.

 

[MarkBrown]

“cut and paste” yep it is. The BDW is what the Ordinariate will have in the States for the foreseeable future. Thankfully a replacement liturgy is being worked out. Prayerfully I hope it is not another “cut and paste”.

I got my copy of the BDW. The confusing rubrics, the illogical placement of the propers, the huge cumbersome book, the prayers for Evening Song/prayer…trying to find them on page this or page that or maybe this section.

After a week of trying to make sense of it, I called Fr. Phillips in hopes he could help me make sense of it. I then realized after about 30 years he is still trying to make sense of it.

Hey, to so how too complicated a simple Praybook can be made…some AU priests I know still use the lectionary of the '28 for daily offices.

I am usually of the school, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Well, the BDW is broke. It needs fixing.

All this said, if I am honored to be a priested and this is my prayerbook I will use it to the best of my ability. Probably part of the Anglican priests formation will be how to take aspirn while studying the BDW.

Mark

 

[BernadetteM]

“cut and paste” yep it is. The BDW is what the Ordinariate will have in the States for the foreseeable future. Thankfully a replacement liturgy is being worked out. Prayerfully I hope it is not another “cut and paste”.

I got my copy of the BDW. The confusing rubrics, the illogical placement of the propers, the huge cumbersome book, the prayers for Evening Song/prayer…trying to find them on page this or page that or maybe this section.

After a week of trying to make sense of it, I called Fr. Phillips in hopes he could help me make sense of it. I then realized after about 30 years he is still trying to make sense of it.

Hey, to so how too complicated a simple Praybook can be made…some AU priests I know still use the lectionary of the '28 for daily offices.

I am usually of the school, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Well, the BDW is broke. It needs fixing.

All this said, if I am honored to be a priested and this is my prayerbook I will use it to the best of my ability. Probably part of the Anglican priests formation will be how to take aspirn while studying the BDW.

Mark

Just pray hard that we get something in the interim that is close to one of the Missals. Hopefully the US Ordinary (once Ordinariate is established) and other priests will have much influence on the revised liturgy for Anglican Use Catholics. I’d rather see two lliturgies one for England and one for the US than comprimise the beauty of all the Anglican Patrimony in the liturgy.

I hope all is going well for you Fr. Mark.

God Bless

Bernadette