Anglican priests possible mass conversion to Catholicism????

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Most of the obstacles to Anglican conversion are non-theological:
  1. Anglicans love their liturgy, deeply. They have a sense of heritage, of spirituality.
  2. Anglo-Catholics have been met with suspicion and distrust by Roman Catholic bishops in Britain.
There is one significant theological point that continues to make them reluctant to abandon their communion, though that is becoming fast abandoned: Anglicans usually hold a “branch theory” which supposes the Anglican Church is another branch of the true Catholic Church. They are finding that branch theory is falling apart as the Anglican communion is being overwhelmed with the apostasy within it. They see other churches (Polish Natioal, Nordic Catholic, etc.) leaving their original, now liberiaizing communions, though they sense a need to find true eccesial unity by reentering the Catholic Church. They see the Pope stading firm while all other branches of Christianity sway.In a certain way, they are seeing Petrine ministry in action, and coming to believe in it.

I believe we should accept them as our brothers and sisters in the Faith if they make a full profession of faith in the Catholic Church, and recieve valid sacraments. We should respect their patience as part of their own spiritual journey, which recieves no condemnation as long as it has led them to that full profession of faith and belief. I hope UK & Irish bishops begin facilitating their conversion, and not discouraging it.
That being said,

I also, as a lover of liturgical diversity, would want to see a separate, widespread Anglican usage within the Latin rite. Though I appreciate the Novus Ordo, I believe many Latin Rite Catholics could benefit from a unique Anglican witness within the Church that teaches us how to enhance and beautify the worship expirience (recognizing the awesome presence of God in our midst.) Anglicans should be proud of their liturgical heritage, and its extension within the Latin rite (beyond a handful of parishes in North America) would be a blessing to all of us. It would also be nice if some English Catholics could recover the medieval Sarum liturgies (as Western-rite Orthodox Christians have) and continue to represent the Catholic heritage of England, but this is less likely.

I also do not believe that there is too great a difference thelogically between Anglicans and Roman Catholics (except as the former embraced heresy at the time of the Establishment) to substantiate a seperate rite or particular church “sui juris”. Though some Catholic Churches received their identity (ecclesially and liturgically) because of past heresy (now repealed) (i.e. Coptic, Chaldean, West-Syrian, Assyrian) they have had uniquely different theological emphases. Still, if someone could demonstrate the same within Anglican Christianity, I would not be opposed to the creation of an English rite.

It is important that Anglicans, as the Eastern Chruches did, list what they seek to preserve of their own tradition - theologically, liturgicaly, etc. When their heritage is detailed, and the conservative Anglicans are ready, Rome can decide the status of their Union.

I fervently pray we will share the Eucharistic table shortly. 🙂
 
I confess I get a little worried about Anglican priests moving to Rome because of women priests/bishops.

If you want to leave a church over women priests why not leave when that church ordains atheist priests (Don Cupitt and those of the Sea of Faith network?)

Basically the question is, why is it so much more of a problem for people to be part of a church with women priests than it is to be part of a church with atheist priests?

Here’s a little about Cupitt:

philosophers.co.uk/portal_article.php?id=43
 
You people must keep up,LOL.
There is an ANGLICAN USE RITE in the Catholic church.After the last great influx of Anglicans in the U K and USA Rome created the Rite to handle all the converts. Entire parishes returned to Rome.It uses Anglican liturgy,has married Anglican priests ( they became Priests when the became Catholic )They are under the local latin Rite bishop.
Yes some Catholic bishops did not and do not give Anglican converts the welcome they deserve.
Many Anglicans converted to the Antiochan Orthodox church,which has a western Rite.
It is estimated that 30% of the Antiochan church in the USA is former Anglicans.
 
Dear friends

Christ Jesus did not call 11 fisherwomen and a woman tax collector to be His Disciples. He called fishermen and a male tax collector; a fairly shabby lot they started out in their call to show how great His works are! Christ Jesus does not call women to that kind of Vocation, He does not call women to the Vocation of Priesthood. These women have a desire of their own that arises out of pride, a pride that is based on a misguided ideal of feminity and the values of that feminity.

Christ Jesus would not be restricted by any ideals society had wrought for themselves. He would not be swayed by any so-called sexism, Christ Jesus is God Almighty and He never bowed down before men in any way to their ideals. He came to give Life and His radical Gospel message and so Christ Jesus called men because they are to be Himself , another Christ to His flock. If He had wanted to call women to the priesthood, you believe it, He would have done it back then over 2000 years ago and would not have been dictated to by a formation of society. He would have called the women to Priesthood if He had desired to, but He did not do it; He is still not doing it today! This is our Mighty Lord, who so enraged the powers of that time they crucified Him, does anyone then think He would have been deterred by a little thing like who He will choose to give birth to His Church and serve Him and the Church until He comes again!? Christ Jesus’ choice is clear and there is really no fruitful or required discussion to add to this, any further words are the vain words of men.

This is basic theology and the Anglican Church cannot reason this out, no they are heavily swayed by the world, thinking the Church should be moulded by the world into worldly ideals, rather than the Church being led by the Holy Spirit as it is in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church being safeguarded from all error of this nature by the Holy Spirit and standing as a shining beacon among the gathering darkness upon the world to shine out the Light of Christ upon the world, to give Christ to the world and to bring His flock to Him in the safety of Mother Church.

We should open our arms wide to all those Anglican Priests who desire to come home to the Catholic Church.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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JOHNYJ:
You people must keep up,LOL.
There is an ANGLICAN USE RITE in the Catholic church.After the last great influx of Anglicans in the U K and USA Rome created the Rite to handle all the converts. Entire parishes returned to Rome.It uses Anglican liturgy,has married Anglican priests ( they became Priests when the became Catholic )They are under the local latin Rite bishop.
Yes some Catholic bishops did not and do not give Anglican converts the welcome they deserve.
Many Anglicans converted to the Antiochan Orthodox church,which has a western Rite.
It is estimated that 30% of the Antiochan church in the USA is former Anglicans.
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There are only 6 Anglican Use parishes in the US, and, IIRC, have never been more than 10; the Pastoral Provision never applied to the UK. You are correct that the AU is not well received in many dioceses. And it is not a permanent arrangement. It was designed to provide a bridge for Anglicans, to ease the transition. When the original former Anglican priests who serve these parishes are gone, there is no provision for their replacement. It is indeed a Use, but not a Rite.

GKC
 
Dear friends

Anglican Priests and those of other denominations desiring to convert to the Catholic faith will be supported in many ways in the UK by the St Barnabas Society. They may be easily contacted here via this website: stbarnabassociety.org.uk/

Taken from the above link:
http://www.stbarnabassociety.org.uk/label_st barnabas society.gif

http://www.stbarnabassociety.org.uk/label_homepage.gif

The St Barnabas Society, a registered charity, operates in Great Britain and Ireland and exists to provide pastoral and financial help on behalf of the whole Catholic community to former clergy ministers and religious from other churches, who live in Great Britain and Ireland, and who have been led by faith and conscience to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.
St Barnabas was chosen as its patron because it was he who befriended Paul after his dramatic conversion on the road to Damascus and encouraged him to begin a new life in the apostolic church with St Peter at its head.

It continues the work, begun over a century ago, of welcoming and helping clergy and religious of other churches. It cooperates with the Bishops and Parish Priests to provide support until the individuals have been integrated into the Catholic community and established in a new life.​

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Well, speaking as a former Anglican/Episcopal I can say a few words about this. It is not a matter of any single issue. It is a cumulative effect of, over the last 30 years, the Anglican/Episcopal church having come unstuck from its historic roots. What keeps people in the Anglican/Episcopal church is not theological; it is love for the liturgy of the Book of Common Prayer. The difficulty is that this has to be given up when you become a Catholic. I have heard that a new English liturgy is on the way for Catholics soon though, and that it is an impressive improvement over the ICEL liturgy.
 
Lisa N:
Well what did the expect when they decided to ordain women? That the women would be happy at the lower levels of authority? They’ve chosen their fate and now they are seeing the results of starting down the slippery slope. How incredibly sad. To those converting, welcome home.

Lisa N
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It’s odd that some people should all of a sudden decide they belong with Rome and not with Canterbury.​

The CC is hardly free of dificulties, strains and stresses - it has a host of problems. Converting in order to escape the woes of the Cof E strikes me as not quite how one should behave - why not stay, precisely because things are difficult ?

If a Church had no problems, it could not be the Church of Christ, but a lie, a mirage, or the work of satan. ##
 
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GKC:
There are only 6 Anglican Use parishes in the US, and, IIRC, have never been more than 10; the Pastoral Provision never applied to the UK. You are correct that the AU is not well received in many dioceses. And it is not a permanent arrangement. It was designed to provide a bridge for Anglicans, to ease the transition. When the original former Anglican priests who serve these parishes are gone, there is no provision for their replacement. It is indeed a Use, but not a Rite.

GKC
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Giving a child sweets is not much good if he is being lured from his home by a would-be abducter; regardless of how much the child enjoys the sweets while he has them; because it looks as if the AU is being allowed purely so as to sweeten the process of transition; then it can be ditched, and those who used the AU will have to put up with the same sorry mess as most of us.​

It would be far more honest simply to do as the English bishops have, and not allow it at all. The Church is not very good at being honest (as Charles Kingsley pointed out to Newman in 1863) - perhaps that’s what comes of being stuck in Italy for so long ##
 
“The CC is hardly free of dificulties, strains and stresses - it has a host of problems. Converting in order to escape the woes of the Cof E strikes me as not quite how one should behave - why not stay, precisely because things are difficult ?”

I hestitate to urge that degree of sacrifice on anyone.

GKC
 
Sometimes things do come back and bite you. When Leo XIII came out and said that Anglicans were just another kind of protestant. No Apostolic succession, no valid Sacraments, or a priesthood.There was widespread denials of course in Anglicanism all kinds of attempted defenses were made. The controversy continued up to almost the present day. It would seem that Leo XIII has been proven right ! what the Anglican communion has been doing since the 1970’s more or less confirms that they are just another protestant church.In America the Episcopal churches consecration of an active homosexual as a bishop and the convoluted reasoning used to justify it. Have confused even other protestants.
THose Anglicans that actualy believed that they were a form of catholic, with priests,and apostolic succession etc. have been the most confused . They would be the first people to seek refuge in an Apostolic church whether it was the Catholic church or the Orthodox.
 
GKC said:
“The CC is hardly free of dificulties, strains and stresses - it has a host of problems. Converting in order to escape the woes of the Cof E strikes me as not quite how one should behave - why not stay, precisely because things are difficult ?”

I hestitate to urge that degree of sacrifice on anyone.

GKC
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When I was an Episcopalian, I used to pray: Lord, why should I become Catholic? The Catholic Church has all the same “issues” we have, only they’re 30 years behind us; if I convert, I’ll just have to go through all of this again!

His answer was: “And your problem with that would be?”

He never said it would be easy.
 
A few days ago, at a prayer meeting, I met an Episcopal priest who had been stationed in India, as a missionary. He told us that last year, when the church decided to accept same-sex marriages, a group of 104 priests including himself, converted to the Catholic Church as a result. He said they are now being trrained to be Catholic priests, with a Papal dispensation to allow those of them who are married to function as married priests.

—Welcome home, Fr. Andy.!:tiphat:
 
I’m personally saddened that people feel they need to protest the ordination of women. I have never understood the Church’s position, nor will I even understand it.

Women are our equals, they can serve God if they wish! They are perfectly capable of being preists! Lets not forget that Jesus had a female disciple, Mary Magdalene, who was the first to discover his tomb and to tell the other apostles the good news of his ressurection.
 
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Gnosis:
I’m personally saddened that people feel they need to protest the ordination of women. I have never understood the Church’s position, nor will I even understand it.

Women are our equals, they can serve God if they wish! They are perfectly capable of being preists! Lets not forget that Jesus had a female disciple, Mary Magdalene, who was the first to discover his tomb and to tell the other apostles the good news of his ressurection.
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It would be my guess that you have never really open-mindedly researched the Church’s position on this issue but that you have absorbed the cultural wisdom on the subject. The argument you make was made in the third century.

The Church’s position is most eloquently explored in Pope John Paul the Great’s important work, Theology of the Body. The ontological and contemplative thrust of this book make it a tough go for some but nowhere is the case better stated.
 
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mercygate:
When I was an Episcopalian, I used to pray: Lord, why should I become Catholic? The Catholic Church has all the same “issues” we have, only they’re 30 years behind us; if I convert, I’ll just have to go through all of this again!

His answer was: “And your problem with that would be?”

He never said it would be easy.
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Of course not - but if any of them are under the impression that the nasty old C of E is a morass of vice, and that the CC does not have the problems that (so far as appearances go) make some people eager to leave the C of E - they will be in for a very rude shock.​

Because “it won’t be easy”, it’s hard to see any justification for skipping Churches. Why change to RC - or anything else for that matter - if the presence of scandals is a problem ? They are found where sin is found. Is Christianity a way out of scandals ? Of course not.

If there were some sort of argument that some sorts of evils denature the Church so that she ceases to be a Christian body at all, that might make some sense. As applied to the C of E, however, the very church some Anglicans apparently want to join has so far refused to regard the C of E as having ceased to be a Christian body. IOW, they are appealing to a position which the CC does not hold, and which her actions deny, in order to think of becoming, or to become, members of the CC. It’s hard to see this as anything but a variety of Donatism. ##
 
GKC said:
“The CC is hardly free of dificulties, strains and stresses - it has a host of problems. Converting in order to escape the woes of the Cof E strikes me as not quite how one should behave - why not stay, precisely because things are difficult ?”

I hestitate to urge that degree of sacrifice on anyone.

GKC
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To quote mercygate: “He never said it would be easy.” In the CC - or in the C of E.​

Being Catholic is pretty good hell sometimes - so why should Catholics have “that degree of sacrifice” urged on them ? Simply because Christ did not come to make life easy for Himself - or for us: at least, I can see no other reason. Nothing is as self-indulgent as division in the Church; for it is an attempt to avoid the Cross. If the Cross is good enough for Christ, then it’s more than good enough for us; for we are not made Christians in order to have an easy time of it. So what if some people suffer because women are made ordained ? People suffer for all sorts of reasons - if disorders in the Churches were too much for them to bear, Christ would not allow them to occur. That they* are* allowed, means that they can and must be endured for His sake. Besides, maybe the presence of those who don’t like such things is a Cross to others: not that this possibility ever is noticed. Or does Christ have no care for all in the Church ?

If anyone is being unChristian, it’s those who try to avoid scandals & pain by skipping Churches, because that will be no defence against pain: pain evaded, has a nasty way of coming back again with even greater force. It also suggests a lack of faith: why should the CC be lumbered with “converts” who have no faith in Christ as the Protector of His own - whatever the scandals among them ? If He has protected the C of E, or any other Church, in the past, what is to stop His doing so now ? ##
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## To quote mercygate: “He never said it would be easy.” In the CC - or in the C of E.

Being Catholic is pretty good hell sometimes - so why should Catholics have “that degree of sacrifice” urged on them ? Simply because Christ did not come to make life easy for Himself - or for us: at least, I can see no other reason. Nothing is as self-indulgent as division in the Church; for it is an attempt to avoid the Cross. If the Cross is good enough for Christ, then it’s more than good enough for us; for we are not made Christians in order to have an easy time of it. So what if some people suffer because women are made ordained ? People suffer for all sorts of reasons - if disorders in the Churches were too much for them to bear, Christ would not allow them to occur. That they* are* allowed, means that they can and must be endured for His sake. Besides, maybe the presence of those who don’t like such things is a Cross to others: not that this possibility ever is noticed. Or does Christ have no care for all in the Church ?

If anyone is being unChristian, it’s those who try to avoid scandals & pain by skipping Churches, because that will be no defence against pain: pain evaded, has a nasty way of coming back again with even greater force. It also suggests a lack of faith: why should the CC be lumbered with “converts” who have no faith in Christ as the Protector of His own - whatever the scandals among them ? If He has protected the C of E, or any other Church, in the past, what is to stop His doing so now ? ##
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My, this one took a long time surfacing again.

I doubt that Christ really urges the sacrifice of the sacraments as an acceptable consequence of remaining amongst what is the mainstream of Anglicanism today. It’s not the scandal of the CoE (or chose your Anglican poison) that occasions the schism. It’s the apostasy.

I go to Mass for the Eucharist. I need to know that I’m going to receive it. So I go where I know the orders are valid (N.B. To all the RCs ready to make the obvious reposte: Yes, I’m quite familiar with Apostolicae Curae).

GKC
 
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