Anglican thoughts about a PNCC blog

[GKC]

Sad, though not entirely surprising. By way of comparison, I remember a case where some parishioners in a Continuing Anglican parish wanted the parish the join the Ordinariate, and took a very combative stance toward those parishioners who didn’t want that. (Notwithstanding Cardinal Kaspar’s position that we are not fishing in the Anglican pond – which I very much agree with.)

Which Continuing Anglican jurisdiction was involved? ACA, perhaps?

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Sad, though not entirely surprising.

Edit: Perhaps I should say that it is surprising coming from Fr. Novak, in view of his positive comments in that article about both the PNCC and Rome. I would have thought that he would be very sympathetic toward Anglicans who don’t want to go Orthodox-ward.

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by Peter J
Sad, though not entirely surprising. By way of comparison, I remember a case where some parishioners in a Continuing Anglican parish wanted the parish the join the Ordinariate, and took a very combative stance toward those parishioners who didn’t want that. (Notwithstanding Cardinal Kaspar’s position that we are not fishing in the Anglican pond – which I very much agree with.)
Which Continuing Anglican jurisdiction was involved? ACA, perhaps?

GKC

That would, of course, be the natural assumption, but I don’t remember for sure.

 

[GKC]

That would, of course, be the natural assumption, but I don’t remember for sure.

I’d bet it was.

GKC

 

[Nine_Two]

In the Anglican world, the parish is just as likely to own the property. Not that it has meant a lot, in these cases.

GKC

I think that’s more an American thing than. Up here in Canada the diocese owns it most of the time.

If it is the case that the parish owns it, why (and this is aimed more at Indifferently) is it wrong when a parish decides to do something that causes a few disaffected to lose their parish than when an entire province decides to do something which causes disaffected to lose their church (and I say this as one affected in this way by the liberalizing policies of the Anglican Church of Canada)?

 

[GKC]

I think that’s more an American thing than. Up here in Canada the diocese owns it most of the time.

If it is the case that the parish owns it, why (and this is aimed more at Indifferently) is it wrong when a parish decides to do something that causes a few disaffected to lose their parish than when an entire province decides to do something which causes disaffected to lose their church (and I say this as one affected in this way by the liberalizing policies of the Anglican Church of Canada)?

I was speaking of TEC, not generally.

GKC

 

[Indifferently]

Novak was in REC for a while, among other things. ROCOR accepted him in his orders. The ROCOR then amusingly shut down its Western vicariate as undermining the EO doctrine, and so I don’t know what the parish is doing now, though they still claim to be “orthodox”.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

In the Anglican world, the parish is just as likely to own the property. Not that it has meant a lot, in these cases.

GKC

That is also the case in the ELCA but if the Synod provided financial support than ownership of the parish buildings will be litigated in court.

 

[GKC]

That is also the case in the ELCA but if the Synod provided financial support than ownership of the parish buildings will be litigated in court.

In the TEC, it often happens that if the parish totally owns and totally and solely funded and absolutely holds clear title to the property, it can still wind up in court.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Novak was in REC for a while, among other things. ROCOR accepted him in his orders. The ROCOR then amusingly shut down its Western vicariate as undermining the EO doctrine, and so I don’t know what the parish is doing now, though they still claim to be “orthodox”.

Incomprehensible.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

Novak was in REC for a while, among other things. ROCOR accepted him in his orders. The ROCOR then amusingly shut down its Western vicariate as undermining the EO doctrine, and so I don’t know what the parish is doing now, though they still claim to be “orthodox”.

I’m surprised ROCOR accepted him in his orders.

I remember the ROCOR shutting down their Western Vicariate – I immediately imagined (or tried to imagine anyhow) what Orthodox would say if the RCC announced that it was shutting down Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[Nine_Two]

Novak was in REC for a while, among other things. ROCOR accepted him in his orders. The ROCOR then amusingly shut down its Western vicariate as undermining the EO doctrine, and so I don’t know what the parish is doing now, though they still claim to be “orthodox”.

I hadn’t heard of the Western Vicariate closing, a quick internet search shows it is a misunderstanding. The Vicariate itself was shut down as a distinct entity within the church, however all Western Rite parishes remain.

According to a letter from Met. Hilarion the change was made to bring the parishes of various rites into closer fellowship (so a Western Rite and Eastern Rite parish in the same city are at the same level in the same hierarchical structure and can better work together).

Fr. Victor’s parish, according to their website, continue to use the Anglican rites.

 

[Nine_Two]

I remember the ROCOR shutting down their Western Vicariate – I immediately imagined (or tried to imagine anyhow) what Orthodox would say if the RCC announced that it was shutting down Eastern Catholic Churches.

Probably something along the lines of “Told you so”

Of course the Vicariate was shut down in much the same way that SCOBA was shut down a few years back. It ceased to exist but its roles and duties continued to be fulfilled in other ways.

 

[Peter_J]

I hadn’t heard of the Western Vicariate closing, a quick internet search shows it is a misunderstanding. The Vicariate itself was shut down as a distinct entity within the church, however all Western Rite parishes remain.

According to a letter from Met. Hilarion the change was made to bring the parishes of various rites into closer fellowship (so a Western Rite and Eastern Rite parish in the same city are at the same level in the same hierarchical structure and can better work together).

Fr. Victor’s parish, according to their website, continue to use the Anglican rites.

Granted, we may have been a little imprecise in saying “shut down”.

 

[Peter_J]

The day that Bishop Frank Weston and our spiritual forbearers longed for has come. The Eastern Orthodox, Rome, and the Polish National Catholics, all now recognize orthodox Anglicans as their own stock, bone of their bone and flesh of their flesh…

Until 1978, the Polish National Catholic Church was in full communion with the Episcopal Church USA and the Anglican Communion, but severed that communion because of the introduction of the “ordination” of women among Anglicans. The PNCC are our estranged brothers and sisters, and they want to heal the breach in the family. The December 2011, issue of Forward in Faith’s New Directions magazine published an article by Norwegian PNCC Bishop Roald Flemstad titled, “Looking for a New Home?” [See page 15] In the article Bishop Flemstad invites Anglicans to embrace Catholic unity through the PNCC led Union of Scranton.

Bishop Flemstad’s article can be found here (page 15).

But regardless what I’d like to ask is this: does it make sense to see the PNCC as a “via media” between Rome and Anglicans? (Or, for that matter, between Orthodox and Anglican?)