Anglican Use Liturgy

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BernadetteM

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I thought that some of you may be interested in seeing an Anglican Use Mass, which is a use of the Latin Rite Catholic Church.

Our Lady of Atonement Catholic Church is one of the parishes that were former Episcopalians. Pope John Paul II allowed former priests/ministers and the congregations of former Episcopal churches to come into full communion with the Catholic Church and retain much of their liturgy.

Areas of the Mass which needed to conform to a valid Catholic consecration and some other changes were made.

I understand that some Anglicans and Episcopalians want more than Rome gave the Anglican Use, but these parishes are thankful for all that was given to them. Some day there could be more revisions who knows, but for now it is a lovely liturgy. They have had Catholic Bishops celebrate using the Anglican Use liturgy. From what I understand there might be a new video coming of the liturgy.

If anyone is interested in seeing the Mass you can to to Yahoo and put in Our Lady of the Atonement Catholic Church, Texas. The quality is poor, but you will be able to see how the Catholic Church has opened its heart to another use in the Church.

There are now 6 sisters from Mother Angelica’s monastery in residence at OLA.

If you choose to watch it go to the website and go to the Blog and at the very bottom of the page is the video.

I love to watch some of the Eastern Rite Liturgies on the web. I gain more knowlege from actually seeing how their liturgies are done and have a greater appreciate for the diversity within the Church.

The AU (Anglican Use) is the tradition I came from and I probably will never be able to attend an actual Mass unless more Bishops allow the Use. I am content with the OF Mass I attend and feel very comfortable in my parish. I just thought it might be of interest to some of you.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
THe ones that have become Catholic? No, they are Catholic, part of the Latin rite, and have been allowed to continue with a liturgy that is very similar to what they had before, as well as in their own traditions. Although that rite doesn’t have the same status as other rites, such as the various Eastern rite Catholics. It seems that the Anglican rite, at this time, is only concidered as a temporary situation for parishes, for pastoral purposes. Too bad I think, as it has many advantages over the current Latin Rite in English. (Though it is not at all unlike what seems to be coming down the tubes…)

Regular Anglicans, ones in communion with Canterbury or that haven’t become Catholic, are considered a denomination. Sometimes you have to be careful of the names, a member of the Anglican Catholic Church is not a Catholic. Very confusing.
 
Bluegoat said:
THe ones that have become Catholic? No, they are Catholic, part of the Latin rite, and have been allowed to continue with a liturgy that is very similar to what they had before, as well as in their own traditions. Although that rite doesn’t have the same status as other rites, such as the various Eastern rite Catholics. It seems that the Anglican rite, at this time, is only concidered as a temporary situation for parishes, for pastoral purposes. Too bad I think, as it has many advantages over the current Latin Rite in English. (Though it is not at all unlike what seems to be coming down the tubes…)

Regular Anglicans, ones in communion with Canterbury or that haven’t become Catholic, are considered a denomination. Sometimes you have to be careful of the names, a member of the Anglican Catholic Church is not a Catholic. Very confusing.
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HI,

I have spoken to some of the AU priests and the Use is not temporary as some like to say. The people who ususally make this type of comment are Anglicans who have left the Anglican Communion in the US and don’t want to really submit to Rome. Also I think that some who belong to TAC (Tranditional Anglican Communion) who have been trying to unite with the Church for around 10 years, but with no success at this time are also making these comments, from ignorance.

Unless for the reason that all the priests received as AU priests (and there are more all the time coming into the Church, some with parishes) and the people in the parishes all were to leave or die, there will always be an AU Use which is part of the Pastoral Provision.

As Catholics we know that there are many liberal Bishops, some who have not wanted this Use. I can’t read their hearts, but I know from experience. Also the Bishops who have allowed the AU in their dioceses seem to really respect and like the priests and the AU Mass.

It is a shame that TAC has not been able to come in under the Pastoral Provsion, but I think they want something different and when dealing with the Church you must be humble and submit to authority and I as a former Episcopalian am very aware of how difficult it is for some to accept the Pope. Also there are other problems from what I have read that some of the Bishops of TAC were at one time Catholic and have been married and divorced and remarried. Also some of the priests have similar problems. It is very complicated.

When our priests went to Rome they were humble and willing to sacrifice whatever they must to be Catholic. Some of our priests have gone through much, but are so dedicated to Holy Mother Church.

Some of the prayers in the Liturgy are very ancient. I realize that the video is long and I believe they edited out the sermon. When I was an Anglo Catholic our High Mass lasted an hour and a half. No one complained about the length.

There are two new parishes or missions, one in Missouri and one in Arizona. The churches start out very small and some like OLA have grown so much.

Please pray that the Bishops will open their hearts to this as not only former Episcopalians have been brought into the Church, but also some Latin Rite Catholics who were unhappy with the liturgy have come back to the Church. Of course this is not what the AU is about, but God uses many means to bring back lapsed Catholics.

As you stated it is not unlike “what is coming down the tubes”, but just as many priests in parishes more or less have done their own things as far as the music, the Peace, holding hands at the Our Father, things might not change too much except for the words that will be used. I believe I read on one of these forums that the US Bishops had not approved the new translation of the Mass, but maybe they have by now.

I go to what I consider a traditional parish, the OF is done very well, there is no hand shaking at the Peace (I am sure that most Catholics today might like that as that is what they know, but it is not a universal custom in the Church, nor is holding hands at the Our Father). We have a reverent church, no talking before or after Mass. Everyone genuflects towards the tabernacle, so I am very at home there. Of course I would love to be able to attend the AU Mass as that is what I am grew up with, just as Catholics today grew up with the OF. We all have our own comfort zone as to what type of Liturgy brings us closer to the Lord. One Liturgy is not more valid than another.

I believe that the Church is universal for all people and that is why the Holy Spirit has opened the gates for former Anglicans. There are so many rites and also usages in the Church today and they all have there own beauty.

So many complain about their parishes, but we must remember that the Catholic Church is the True Church and to leave it in my opinion is to leave Christ in the full sense of what His Church is. Yes protestants do accept Christ but have denied themselves the Eucharist and all the graces that people receive in the Church.

I hope I have explained what the Anglican Use Mass is and that yes they are Latin Rite Cathoics with their own use of the liturgy.

It is confusing because many of the parishes that broke away from the Episcopal church use the would “Catholic” in their names. Such as St. Marys Anglican Catholic Church, so that people really don’t understand that they are really Episcopalians, not Catholic.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Although that rite doesn’t have the same status as other rites, such as the various Eastern rite Catholics
**Eastern Catholics are not “rites”, but are members of sui juris Churches in communion with the Roman Church.

Big difference.**
 
bpbasilphx said:
Although that rite doesn’t have the same status as other rites, such as the various Eastern rite Catholics
**Eastern Catholics are not “rites”, but are members of sui juris Churches in communion with the Roman Church.

Big difference.**
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The Anglican Use is not a rite in of itself, it is a use and is part of the Latin Rite.

I surely get confused when I see other posters use the term rite in regards to the Eastern Catholics. I also noticed you used the term Eastern Rite in your response.

What exactly does sui juris mean? It doesn’t seem to matter which terms I use for describing something within the Church even if I see others use the same terms I am always corrected and maybe there should be a post with an explanation of terms and which words are not acceptable to use. I don’t want to offend people by using the incorrect language.

Just as in your post I explained that AU is not a rite. Also do you feel that a different Use of the liturgy is less than others? Just wondering as you mentioned a different status.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Thank you so much for the information about watching the Anglican Use Mass. I will certainly go to the site you spoke about. Having been a convert from Episcopalianism and Anglo Catholic also, I am very interested and there is no AU Mass in this archdiocese (on this coast, for that matter)
 
Just as in your post I explained that AU is not a rite. Also do you feel that a different Use of the liturgy is less than others? Just wondering as you mentioned a different status.
**All authorized Liturgies and Rites and Uses in the Church are equal in dignity. I certainly did not mean to imply otherwise.

However, the Anglican Use is, at least for the present, a variant usage within the Latin Church. Mozarabic and Ambrosian rites are RITES in the Latin Church.

The Latin or Roman Church is just one sui juris church in the Catholic Church.

The Melkite Church (for example) is a sui juris autonomous church with her own patriarch, synod, and hierarchy, as well as liturgical praxis (one of the recensions of the Byzantine Liturgy) and canons. Sui juris means “its own law” literally.

Other Byzantine sui juris churches are the Ukrainian, Byzantine Catholic Metropolia of Pittsburgh, and Romanian Catholic Churches. These are by no means all of them.

The Maronite, Chaldean, and Syro-Malabar are other sui juris Eastern Catholic Churches, but are not Byzantine. (And this enumeration is certainly not exhaustive.)

All of these sui juris churches are in communion with the Roman Pontiff.

In my city alone there are parishes of the Melkite, Ukrainian, Ruthenian (Byzantine Catholic), Maronite, Chaldean, and Syro-Malabar Churches (actually, this one is a mission). None of them are under the jurisdiction of the Latin bishop, but their own.

In my limited observation, Western Catholics (and Protestants, too, for that matter) see the Church as a monolithic instution.

Eastern Catholics, on the other hand, view the Catholic Church as a communion of sister Churches in communion with (not necessarily under) the Pope.

I doubt we’ll ever see the tension between these views resolved. Maybe it should not be settled on earth. Maybe these complementary (not necessarily opposed) views really keeps things in balance.

There are some members of the Traditional Anglican Communion who would like to received as a sui juris church. Obviously, I’m not opposed in prinicple, but that’s for someone else to work out, not me. **
 
bpbasilphx said:
Just as in your post I explained that AU is not a rite. Also do you feel that a different Use of the liturgy is less than others? Just wondering as you mentioned a different status.
**All authorized Liturgies and Rites and Uses in the Church are equal in dignity. I certainly did not mean to imply otherwise.

However, the Anglican Use is, at least for the present, a variant usage within the Latin Church. Mozarabic and Ambrosian rites are RITES in the Latin Church.

The Latin or Roman Church is just one sui juris church in the Catholic Church.

The Melkite Church (for example) is a sui juris autonomous church with her own patriarch, synod, and hierarchy, as well as liturgical praxis (one of the recensions of the Byzantine Liturgy) and canons. Sui juris means “its own law” literally.

Other Byzantine sui juris churches are the Ukrainian, Byzantine Catholic Metropolia of Pittsburgh, and Romanian Catholic Churches. These are by no means all of them.

The Maronite, Chaldean, and Syro-Malabar are other sui juris Eastern Catholic Churches, but are not Byzantine. (And this enumeration is certainly not exhaustive.)

All of these sui juris churches are in communion with the Roman Pontiff.

In my city alone there are parishes of the Melkite, Ukrainian, Ruthenian (Byzantine Catholic), Maronite, Chaldean, and Syro-Malabar Churches (actually, this one is a mission). None of them are under the jurisdiction of the Latin bishop, but their own.

In my limited observation, Western Catholics (and Protestants, too, for that matter) see the Church as a monolithic instution.

Eastern Catholics, on the other hand, view the Catholic Church as a communion of sister Churches in communion with (not necessarily under) the Pope.

I doubt we’ll ever see the tension between these views resolved. Maybe it should not be settled on earth. Maybe these complementary (not necessarily opposed) views really keeps things in balance.

There are some members of the Traditional Anglican Communion who would like to received as a sui juris church. Obviously, I’m not opposed in prinicple, but that’s for someone else to work out, not me. **
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Thank you for your explicit explanation, that helps so much.

Yes I would also like TAC to come into the Church, but we really don’t know what is going on behind the scenes. As I stated when our priests went to Rome over 28 years ago and petitioned to be received with our own liturgy and traditions they demanded nothing more than to become Catholic and were willing to accept what Rome offered. Also I do believe from comments on blogs that many in TAC do not want to be under the Pope. And as a former Episcopalian in a parish which was divided when our priest and many of us wanted to enter the Catholic Church, I understand the mindset of many Episcopalians and Anglicans who have left their church and continue as Anglicans in one form or another. Some in TAC are not Anglo Catholic and that also complicates the issue.

I understand what they would like, but if they could be accepted in the US and in Europe into the Pastoral Provision at this time, there might come a time in the future if there are many more parishes and lay persons, Rome might allow them to be a sui juris church. Rome takes her time and I can’t blame the Pope and Bishops as the Catholic Church does not need more turmoil than is already within the Church today. Like I mentioned the Bishops who have allowed the AU parishes have come to respect them, but it has taken many years to show that the Pastoral Provision is a viable option within the Church.

God Bless

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Hi Bernadette,
I’ve been wondering about “how” an Anglican parish becomes Catholic. Like, what happens in between the time the Holy Spirit tells them they must become Catholic, and when they actually do? Do your ministers continue to offer Sunday service? Would they ask a Catholic priest to offer Mass?
Peace be with you
 
Spirithound said:
Hi Bernadette,
I’ve been wondering about “how” an Anglican parish becomes Catholic. Like, what happens in between the time the Holy Spirit tells them they must become Catholic, and when they actually do? Do your ministers continue to offer Sunday service? Would they ask a Catholic priest to offer Mass?
Peace be with you
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It has been over 28 years ago so my memory is vague. I believe that we went to a small Catholic Church with a retired priest who celebrated Mass, we didn’t receive. One of our priests was ordained very soon and he came and heard our confessions, baptized if needed, and Confirmed us and then gave us our First Holy Communion. We had been told by the Cardinal that we would be allowed a parish, but in the end he denied us. I think I have a very good idea why, but won’t go into the details. He is not well liked by any Catholic I know and has had very bad publicity in the media for the Church.

The retired priest had to be about 80 years old and was a wonderful Irish priest. It was a very small church in a Hispanic area. Sometimes their parishioners would come in to pray while we had Mass and probably wondered what was going on.

Many Anglo Catholics consider themselves Catholic already, but I always knew in my heart that I did not belong to the True Church and I think many of them do, but it is difficult for Episcopalians/Anglicans to submit to the authority of the Pope. Protestants don’t really want someone telling them what to do. At least that is my experience, I think that of course the Holy Spirit converted the hearts of those that entered the Church, but at different times. I was converted in my heart at the age of 8, but of course a child cannot make those decisions. Anyway that is another story, but I am so happy that I finally was able to become a Catholic in the true sense of the word.

I have nothing bad to say about my time in the Episcopal Church when I found an Anglo Catholic parish. They had a beautiful Mass and we had a beautiful church and our priest was very strong in his Catholic beliefs and he and three other priests are the ones who approached Rome to request what is now known as the Pastoral Provison.

Hope I didn’t give you to much information.

Thanks for asking.

God Bless

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
Hope I didn’t give you to much information.

Thanks for asking.

God Bless

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Not at all, that was just the information I was wondering about. You are very blessed to have such a humble priest.
 
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