7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I’m pretty sure you should be able to find it online.
- Status
B
BernadetteM
Guest
Although he basics are online, each parish might be a little different, as Rome has given them latitude regarding certain specifics, i.e. Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, Last Gospel, saying/singing the Angelus or another appropriate prayer/anthem that fits the season etc.
It would be good if Catholics who live close to an Ordinariate parish visit and learn more about the diversity within the Church.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
It would be good if Catholics who live close to an Ordinariate parish visit and learn more about the diversity within the Church.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
J
jaimeleglise
Guest
During my mother’s requiem memorial Mass the priest, a former Episcopalian priest, gave a beautiful sermon. He said as an Episcopalian priest he always knew about the Communion of Saints. Now a few years later, as a Roman Catholic priest, he felt the Communion of Saints much more deeply. People on earth, purgatory and in heaven all praying for each other, helping each other spiritually.
P
ProVobis
Guest
I’ve heard in some places, they’ve even adopted parts of Cranmer’s Mass. What’s up with that? Certainly the Church can’t be going forward with it or what are the plans as you understand them?
There are no plans; the Church HAS gone forward and approved it. The Ordinariate Use has been finalized and has Rome’s recognitio. It’s been in use for the past year now.
Yes, the Ordinariate Use uses parts of the Book of Common Prayer. These include the Summary of the Law, the Collect for Purity, the Anglican Penitential Rite, the Prayer of Humble Access and the Thanksgiving. These are among the most beautiful prayers in the English language and the English-speaking Catholic Church is now very blessed to have them as part of their liturgy.
The rest are either adapted from the English Missal (an Anglican translation of the Roman Mass in force in the early to mid 20th century) and the Ordinary Form of the Roman Mass (reformulated accordingly to use Elizabethan pronouns, i.e. “We proclaim thy death O Lord…”).
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
The Anglican Use Mass has already been approved by Pope Benedict XVI and has been in use for some time.
S
shawnbm
Guest
You and I were going through the same process within a year of one another. I too would like to attend an Anglican Use mass someday, but I do not know where or when that will be.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I don’t know what city or state you live in, but you might contact your diocese and they might be able to tell you where there is one close to where you live.
M
Miserissima
Guest
Let me refer you to this post from our esteemed Brother JR:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=12337084&postcount=30
Actually, the whole thread is pretty good.
P
ProVobis
Guest
What’s the most common one, the 1662 Prayers or thereabouts? I have the Project Canterbury and Wexford and some other texts.
It may sound nice to your ears but how many are into that kind of English and can follow it? People these days need Cliff’s Notes and tons of footnotes just to read Shakespeare; or at least those who still bother to try to read him at all.
P
ProVobis
Guest
The AU Mass was approved well before Pope Benedict. 1984 I believe, but I don’t know when it was updated to reflect the new English translations, specifically the “for you and for many” in the Canon.
That’s the Book of Divine Worship which was used for the Pastoral Provision. It was temporarily approved for the Ordinariates when their Mass was being finalized. That is no longer the case. With the finalization and approval of the Ordinariate Use, they no longer use the Book of Divine Worship. And if I have my timelines right, the approval came during the reign of Pope Francis already.
The former Anglicans are. The basis of the BCP parts I believe (and I do not have any sources to confirm), are based on the 1979 Episcopal Book of Common Prayer (Rite I, none of Rite II), and the 1662 CoE BCP. Some vocabulary has been slightly adjusted to be a little more consistent, and I guess, easier to follow e.g. “The peace of the Lord be always (no longer alway) with you”; “I confess…to blessed John the Baptist” instead of merely “John Baptist” etc.
This kind of English is part of Anglican liturgical heritage, the preservation of which is one of the objectives of the Ordinariate.
The Ordinariates are also clear that if they want celebrations in contemporary English, they can always use the Ordinary Form in its current translation.
P
ProVobis
Guest
As I read the Apostolic Constitution on the matter, there were reasons for the Ordinariate but I don’t see the promotion of 16th century English as being one of them. Why not Chaucerian English for those Anglicans who prefer that period? There’s probably some liturgy of that period which wasn’t abrogated by Quo Primum. Sarum Use, for example?
That is my understanding as well.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
Why would the Mass have been approved in 1984 when the Ordinariates were just formalized recently?
P
ProVobis
Guest
I think we’re talking about different things here. One is a separate liturgy, and other is a personal ordinariate of groups of converted Anglicans, who typically owned their own churches. (Did I say that right?)
Chaucerian English is Middle English, not Early Modern English, which is the language of the King James Bible and the Book of Common Payer.
The Constitution calls for the preservation of Anglican liturgical heritage and patrimony, not the style of English per se. But the English is part of that patrimony, having been transmitted through the King James Version and the Book of Common Prayer. This is also the reason the Church as approved the use of the RSV for their Mass and Office, because the RSV is a direct descendant of the King James. The approved Psalter is Coverdale’s, and even the King James Bible is heard during the Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols.
Maybe a better question is why would you object to the Tudor English?
The Mass approved in 1984 was the Book of Divine Worship, which was published for Episcopalians who entered the Catholic Church through the Pastoral Provision. It was set up in 1980 by Pope John Paul II for Episcopalians to enter the Church while retaining their unique liturgical expressions and pastoral practices (e.g. allowing their married priests to be ordained Catholic priests if they brought their congregations with them). It was effective only the United States, AFAIK. It still remains active even today.
Those who entered the Church through the Pastoral Provision entered through their territorial dioceses, and Pastoral Provision parishes were parishes of the diocese, under the authority of the local diocesan bishop. The Book of Divine Worship was what was approved for their use.
When the Ordinariates were formed, work was started on a Use of the Roman Rite for their use. While this work was in progress, the BDW was also permitted for their use on an interim basis, as was the Anglican English Missal (with corrections from Rome). When the Ordinariate Use was approved in 2013, permission to use the BDW and all other missals were withdrawn, and the new Ordinariate Use Mass is effective for Ordinariates worldwide.
C
codefro
Guest
I am a member of the Ordinariate of the the Chair of St. Peter. I absolutely love the Anglican Use. I converted to the Latin Rite as a former High Church Anglican. I attended both forms of the Roman Rite, and developed a love of the EF most particularly. Although I was happy that the Ordinariate established a mission church by me. I missed my Anglican liturgy. The Anglican Use is my current favorite liturgy to participate in.
The most recent update to the Anglican Use incorporates adjustments that adhere more to the structure of Ordinary Form of the Liturgy, while incorporating elements that seem closer to the Extraordinary Form (i.e. prayers at the foot of the altar, the last gospel reading, and a couple other prayers.) Also, the Ordinariate Calendar incorporates some of the good of the EF calendar while following the OF calendar setup. It would seem that the Anglican Use is a perfect example of the hermeneutic of continuity between the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
On another note, my Church had a Solemn High Mass at the Serra Chapel in San Juan Capistrano for the visit of the Ordinary. The scola sung Byrd’s Mass for Four Voices. It was glorious. It was a liturgical treat for all who got to see it. I pray that any traditional-minded Catholics would make themselves a friend of the Ordinariate. Many of these Catholics in the Ordinariate are brothers in arms for the fight that traditional Catholics are fighting. We want to see the authentic expression of the Latin-Rite to be expressed in its historical fullness just as much as a traditional Catholic. We have our own expression in the liturgy, but traditional Catholics will find that the liturgy shares the same reverence that is often found in Latin Masses. Some food for thought.
The most recent update to the Anglican Use incorporates adjustments that adhere more to the structure of Ordinary Form of the Liturgy, while incorporating elements that seem closer to the Extraordinary Form (i.e. prayers at the foot of the altar, the last gospel reading, and a couple other prayers.) Also, the Ordinariate Calendar incorporates some of the good of the EF calendar while following the OF calendar setup. It would seem that the Anglican Use is a perfect example of the hermeneutic of continuity between the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
On another note, my Church had a Solemn High Mass at the Serra Chapel in San Juan Capistrano for the visit of the Ordinary. The scola sung Byrd’s Mass for Four Voices. It was glorious. It was a liturgical treat for all who got to see it. I pray that any traditional-minded Catholics would make themselves a friend of the Ordinariate. Many of these Catholics in the Ordinariate are brothers in arms for the fight that traditional Catholics are fighting. We want to see the authentic expression of the Latin-Rite to be expressed in its historical fullness just as much as a traditional Catholic. We have our own expression in the liturgy, but traditional Catholics will find that the liturgy shares the same reverence that is often found in Latin Masses. Some food for thought.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I guess that was the time I wasn’t going to church.
I wish I had known about the pastoral provisions and maybe I would have decided to convert back then. It had only been 10 years I had not gone to church. I knew by 1980 I didn’t want to be episcopalian anymore even though I had a fondness for the BCP and the church I knew it did not have authority or hold the Truth. So interesting-thanks for the info.
- Status