Anglican valid orders

[f_william]

I mean I’m liberal but to conservative for tec

 

[f_william]

I mean I’m liberal but to conservative for tec

 

[cmodrmac]

there are anglo catholics that are conservative in the TEC -most of we conservatives did not leave becuase we did not want to undergo the stress of schism-Both our Churches would be much stronger if the "conservatives had stayed and continued to represent their views-Bishop Schori is gone in a year-you could have had a powerful influence over the election of the next Presiding Bishop

instead you ruptured the Church -

 

[GKC]

there are anglo catholics that are conservative in the TEC -most of we conservatives did not leave becuase we did not want to undergo the stress of schism-Both our Churches would be much stronger if the "conservatives had stayed and continued to represent their views-Bishop Schori is gone in a year-you could have had a powerful influence over the election of the next Presiding Bishop

instead you ruptured the Church -

That is a question of perspective. The liturgical innovation of females in cleric vestments (inter alia) ruptured the Church. Schori is a symptom, not the disease.

GKC

 

[GKC]

Oops. Misread a post.

GKC

 

[7_Sorrows]

there are anglo catholics that are conservative in the TEC -most of we conservatives did not leave becuase we did not want to undergo the stress of schism-Both our Churches would be much stronger if the "conservatives had stayed and continued to represent their views-Bishop Schori is gone in a year-you could have had a powerful influence over the election of the next Presiding Bishop

instead you ruptured the Church -

Isn’t that what the CoE did to the RCC- ruptured the church?

 

[PTD]

…blah, blah, blah deleted…
The correct attitude to take toward the judgement is that it is certainly binding on RCs, at the appropriate level of theological certainty, and should be affirmed by them. Anglicans, of course, may take another view of the matter (or the form, or intent).

GKC

OK, no pun should go unrecognized.

 

[GKC]

OK, no pun should go unrecognized.

I always look to see if it is picked up.

GKC, capable of huge tracts of blah, blah, blah, on selected subjects.

 

[pablope]

there are anglo catholics that are conservative in the TEC -most of we conservatives did not leave becuase we did not want to undergo the stress of schism-Both our Churches would be much stronger if the "conservatives had stayed and continued to represent their views-Bishop Schori is gone in a year-you could have had a powerful influence over the election of the next Presiding Bishop

instead you ruptured the Church -

There is a term limit for bishop schori? (Just curious,i thought a bishop would serve almost for life0)

 

[GKC]

There is a term limit for bishop schori? (Just curious,i thought a bishop would serve almost for life0)

There is a term limit for the office of Presiding Bishop. Bets are being taken as to whether it will live or die, given the other changes in that office she ha achieved.

GKC

 

[f_william]

Then your issue is with the Apostles and Christ. They set up the Church not as a democracy.

But do you realize what you just did? You just substituted the authority of the Church for another authority of your own choosing and one that you agree with.

Here is a bit of a current news: catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21970&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CatholicWorldNewsFeatureStories+%28Catholic+World+News+%28on+CatholicCulture.org%29%29

Anglican leadership will force acceptance of women bishops, sources reportdz I mlght of worded it wrong why I left. Like birth control I’m against it to for peolpe who use it to keep themself safe for one night stand but ok with in marriage who should for some reasonwait for kids.Abortion should be unthinkable unless for rape or mothers health even in rape mother could carry it and give it up .Thats want I mean when I say one man should not all the power Think there are some reason God will forgive.As for woman priest I’m not for but rathersee that than gay bishop or priest it m a y sound homophobic but Iam not.TEC I would stay if the conservative would return it the way it was.But if the liberal bishops voted in Schori in who would they vote in next I f the conservratives could get up and turn TEC back into the Christian church it was there be more joining and coming back So we don’t agree with each other but I do respect your views I wish you peace. BILL

What do you say to this kind of authority being employed by the Arch of C?

 

[FathersKnowBest]

I don’t know but howIunderstand it is that pope Leo picked four cardinals to reseach Anglican oders.Results were a tie two for and two not…Leo was thebtie braker with a no .

Do you have a citation for this?

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the decision was unanimous:

These, after a two months’ study, in a special meeting under the presidency of the Pope, decided by a unanimous vote that Anglican orders were certainly invalid.

For two to say yes there had to be something there the other two didn’t see the paper Iread said that it might been polictical. Leo was afraid if he said yes he would lose the church to the COE…I think with great respect for the Catholic Church they were wrong and anglicans have valid oders.Thats want I think but the CC and others think I’m worng.

I, for one, think you may be misinformed.

 

[GKC]

Do you have a citation for this?

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the decision was unanimous:

These, after a two months’ study, in a special meeting under the presidency of the Pope, decided by a unanimous vote that Anglican orders were certainly invalid.

I, for one, think you may be misinformed.

As I have detailed, somewhere up above (and repeatedly, over the years), the vote of the Cardinals, under the Holy office, was unanimous. The vote of the Commissioners, who spent several days considering the matter, to varying degrees, and advised the Cardinals, was split.

GKC

 

[FathersKnowBest]

As I have detailed, somewhere up above (and repeatedly, over the years), the vote of the Cardinals, under the Holy office, was unanimous. The vote of the Commissioners, who spent several days considering the matter, to varying degrees, and advised the Cardinals, was split.

GKC

OK, but:
A) you didn’t cite a source for your information
B) even then, your information was based on apparently anonymous sources (“leaked”):

The results of their deliberations were not made public, but are discernible from info leaked over the years - possibly 4 each, for valid-invalid, or, more likely, 2 for valid, 2 for possibly valid, 4 for invalid. Cardinal Vaughan’s 3 selectees were solidly for invalid.

and
C) were extrapolated (“discernible”) from what those anonymous sources may have said.

Not exactly anything that I would want to make a claim about.

ESPECIALLY so definitive a claim as f william made:

I don’t know but howIunderstand it is that pope Leo picked four cardinals to reseach Anglican oders.Results were a tie two for and two not…Leo was thebtie braker with a no .For two to say yes there had to be something there the other two didn’t see the paper Iread said that it might been polictical. Leo was afraid if he said yes he would lose the church to the COE…I think with great respect for the Catholic Church they were wrong and anglicans have valid oders.Thats want I think but the CC and others think I’m worng.

 

[GKC]

t

OK, but:
A) you didn’t cite a source for your information
B) even then, your information was based on apparently anonymous sources (“leaked”):

and
C) were extrapolated (“discernible”) from what those anonymous sources may have said.

Not exactly anything that I would want to make a claim about.

ESPECIALLY so definitive a claim as f william made:

A) Yes I did. Read post #15 above. I will repeat the source, if you can’t find it. It contains the source of the best estimate of the vote of the 8 commissioners.

I can’t speak for f william (post #15 was correcting him). But the sad tale of Apostolicae curea and its history, from the first meeting of Lord Halifax and the Abbe Portal, on the island of Madeira, in the winter of 1890, to the conclusion of the Malines Conversations, as a coda, in 1927, has been a hobby of mine for around 20 years. You can accept that I know what I am speaking of, or not, as you chose.

And occasionally, I’m wrong.

GKC

 

[FathersKnowBest]

t

A) Yes I did. Read post #15 above. I will repeat the source, if you can’t find it. It contains the source of the best estimate of the vote of the 8 commissioners.

OK, I guess you’re saying that this information came from Fr. John J. Hughes ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID, although it isn’t clear. Your post just said that this was the best source of information on the subject, not that the information you posted came from that source.

But that leaves us with the other points.

 

[GKC]

OK, I guess you’re saying that this information came from Fr. John J. Hughes ABSOLUTELY NULL AND UTTERLY VOID, although it isn’t clear. Your post just said that this was the best source of information on the subject, not that the information you posted came from that source.

But that leaves us with the other points.

No, it doesn’t. Read the post immediately above. Fr. Hughes cites the source for the divided vote, though the actual division remains unclear.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

OK, but:
A) you didn’t cite a source for your information

Not meaning to butt in, but I find it very commendable that you make that observation about someone agreeing with you.