Anglicanism — Something that happened to me recently

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Sorry, but if you think the Roman Catholic Church’s claims about itself are true you should turn yourself in to the nearest RC parish, arrange a confession, and beg Father to receive you IMMEDIATELY. Your very salvation could be at stake!

Stop extracting money from the Church of England. It is selfish and wicked to do that if you have already decided to withdraw yourself from it.
First, thank’s for being so charitable. Second, it’s not as if I hadn’t “turned myself in” to the nearest parish. It’s just been determined that I should take the time I need, which was stated by the Catholic priest. I refuse to talk about my personal salvation – which I have my own doubts about, you be sure!*– in this tone. Thank you.

How exactly is it that I am “extracting money” from the CofE? I’m not even on the members list of the parish any longer, nor do we receive funding. In fact, you should be happy, sir, that I am still contributing to it.
If he has already changed his mind, and continues on as an Anglican, he is perpetuating a fraud. If he is really Roman Catholic in his heart now, then he is basically saying that the Church of England’s claim to be part of the ‘one, holy, catholic and apostolic church’ is a lie, which means he should stop engaging with it forthwith.
While I do believe that claim is not sustainable, I trust that God knows one’s heart. Think: Baptism by desire. I haven’t refused to become Catholic, quite the opposite.
OP, are you still taking communion in your C of E parish? If so, why? The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Church of England priests are not priests at all but laymen in vestments and that their “sacraments” are not valid. So you, by continuing to take communion in an Anglican church, are not only violating your own conscience (presumably) but leading others astray by publicly participating in something which you now believe (as a Roman Catholic at heart) to be a fraud.
No, I do not take communion any longer. Sorry to disappoint you.
Perhaps you have committed some “mortal sins” in your life. You do realize that as Anglican “priests” are not real priests you cannot receive absolution from them right? So if you get hit by a bus tomorrow you could be in danger of hell-fires? Do you not see that your reason for staying in the Church of England (presumably, money) is both condemnatory to you and something that has the capacity to lead others astray as well?
Yes, I recognise all of that. I don’t know where I’d end up and I can’t help but think that you would be quite alright with me going there for abandoning the CofE. Really, I do not at all appreciate this tone.

My reason for staying in the CofE is that I am bound to do so by a contract. People are telling me they are so happy that I work there (this is a year of voluntary service to the parish) and with all that I do. Are you seriously telling me that I should leave them all alone from one day to the next, leaving all the stuff unfinished and unworkable?

No, I do not see it as condemnatory to myself. (See above) Since I have not refused to join the Catholic Church, but rather have decided to do so, I do not believe that I would automatically go to Hell because of that. However, I could, of course, for other reasons known to God.

I would be leading them astray if people knew I didn’t accept Anglican claims. They don’t and therefore I am not leading anyone anywhere. And by the way, I put in a word for the Catholics anywhere I can. That wouldn’t be to your liking, I presume.
Could it not be possible that perhaps, the OP needs a period of transition to find a new job, before he stops working for the Church of England?

What of the Anglican faith has he been compromising in his current capacity? Has he been distributing Communion? Has been attempting to subvert any particular outreaches or missions of his parish?
Yes, that is the case: I am bound until 31 August. I have not compromised anything, if by that you mean getting up in the pew and shouting: “Heretics!”. I have not been giving out communion, neither have I been trying to subvert anything. Quite the opposite.
It seems additionally that he strove to provide an accurate portrayal of the Church with the assignment we are currently discussing.

His parish absolutely has the right to terminate employment at any time given his desire to convert to Catholicism, but maybe they’ve allowed him to stayed employed until he has found a new one? Or perhaps he signed a contract and therefore cannot terminate his employment until it expires?
The latter is the case.
It could also be that none of what I said is true. But in Christian charity, shouldn’t we at least offer him the benefit of the doubt?
Thank you for saying that, I believe it has been very helpful! 🙂
 
So OP are you pretending to be an Anglican in front of Anglicans? Do you think pretending to be something you are not might be considered dishonest?
 
So OP are you pretending to be an Anglican in front of Anglicans? Do you think pretending to be something you are not might be considered dishonest?
I am an Anglican formally, so no need to pretend. Furthermore, I do not take communion, which would be pretending, and neither does anyone know of my intentions. There are Catholics who attend the services here, are they pretending to be Anglicans? I’m sure you have no problem with others coming to an Anglican service.
 
No, what irks me is that you continue in the Church of England attempting to undermine and sabotage it with non Anglican teaching. How was the Church of England “founded” by Henry VIII? Is that what the Church of England teaches? How does it define itself against the “historic” Catholic Church, when it clearly considers that appellation erroneous when applied to the Roman Communion? It did not disavow Purgatory either, merely the Roman Catholic doctrines concerning it (bound up with the Treasury of Merit and Indulgences, which I presume you now believe in).

The Church of England was not a new church, legally and Anglicans would say spiritually either. It was the Bishop of Rome who excommunicated Elizabeth and the English Church (and effectively ordered her subjects to overthrow her, which would have led to foreign rule, probably by Spain, whose Armada God had chosen to sink, after that particular adventure had been supported by the previous Pope as a crusade).

So, no, I don’t think your volunteer work comes up to much when you are attempting to district the Church of England’s teaching and undermine it from within.

How would Roman Catholics feel if I went into one of their parishes and wrote a pamphlet declaring that the Roman Catholic Church was founded in 1054 when the Pope dropped out of the true Church because the other Patriarchs would not submit to his rule? Of course, that is not Anglican ecclesiological teaching either, but it amount to the same thing you are doing now.
 
So, no, I don’t think your volunteer work comes up to much when you are attempting to district the Church of England’s teaching and undermine it from within.
I presume you are aware his superiors signed off on it, correct?
 
No, what irks me is that you continue in the Church of England attempting to undermine and sabotage it with non Anglican teaching. How was the Church of England “founded” by Henry VIII? Is that what the Church of England teaches? How does it define itself against the “historic” Catholic Church, when it clearly considers that appellation erroneous when applied to the Roman Communion? It did not disavow Purgatory either, merely the Roman Catholic doctrines concerning it (bound up with the Treasury of Merit and Indulgences, which I presume you now believe in).
Dear friend, I think it best if you leave judging my intentions up to me and God. I am not sabotaging or undermining the Church of England’s teaching. The bishop approved the entire thing, simply saying that a few very minor things could be worded differently, but he did not include Henry VIII or Purgatory in that. Therefore, I will not debate this with you here.
The Church of England was not a new church, legally and Anglicans would say spiritually either. It was the Bishop of Rome who excommunicated Elizabeth and the English Church (and effectively ordered her subjects to overthrow her, which would have led to foreign rule, probably by Spain, whose Armada God had chosen to sink, after that particular adventure had been supported by the previous Pope as a crusade).
How is the CofE not a new church if it officially renounces historical doctrine and teaching? How is it not a new one if it teaches stuff that Protestantism brought about? How is it not a new one if it is not recognised as such by the one preceding it?
So, no, I don’t think your volunteer work comes up to much when you are attempting to district the Church of England’s teaching and undermine it from within.
I am not doing that, how often do I need to tell you that this thing was approved by senior clergy? If you are worrying about being undermined, you should worry more about them. I will not be accused of something you are not qualified to judge.
How would Roman Catholics feel if I went into one of their parishes and wrote a pamphlet declaring that the Roman Catholic Church was founded in 1054 when the Pope dropped out of the true Church because the other Patriarchs would not submit to his rule? Of course, that is not Anglican ecclesiological teaching either, but it amount to the same thing you are doing now.
Just because somebody claims this, it does not become true. I know this goes both ways, but the burden of proof is on you. And if the Catholic Bishop signed off on that pamphlet, then I should think there were truth to it.
 
I presume you are aware his superiors signed off on it, correct?
Why does that matter? Just because his parish priest was OK with it does not change the fact that it is not Church of England teaching.
 
OP, regardless of your newfound Roman Catholic opinions (which you hold so impressively that you are keeping them quiet whilst working in an Anglican parish) the Church of England does not teach that it is a new church. Indeed, all legal references prior to the Reformation refer to Ecclesia Anglicana. Whilst you continue to work for an Anglican parish under your cloak, might I suggest you actually investigate Anglican teaching, rather than inserting RC spin into Anglican literature?

I am not surprised people did not like what you wrote. So heating a Bishop signed off on it? Did you tell him you were now Roman Catholic in your heart? I leave it to you - you know exactly what you are up to, and are looking for vindication of your actions from a forum which is probably going to give you it.
 
Where is the charity, my friend? Why should it matter if the Bishop knew whether or not he is Catholic or not?
 
OP, regardless of your newfound Roman Catholic opinions (which you hold so impressively that you are keeping them quiet whilst working in an Anglican parish) the Church of England does not teach that it is a new church. Indeed, all legal references prior to the Reformation refer to Ecclesia Anglicana. Whilst you continue to work for an Anglican parish under your cloak, might I suggest you actually investigate Anglican teaching, rather than inserting RC spin into Anglican literature?

I am not surprised people did not like what you wrote. So heating a Bishop signed off on it? Did you tell him you were now Roman Catholic in your heart? I leave it to you - you know exactly what you are up to, and are looking for vindication of your actions from a forum which is probably going to give you it.
Boy, there is a lot of :mad: there, I believe.

I never said that the CofE teaches this. Of course it wouldn’t if it wants to sustain its claim of “being part of the Catholic Church”. I wouldn’t teach it if I wanted people to believe the latter. But just because I teach something different, it doesn’t become true.

Yes, and if you know Latin you know that Ecclesia Anglicana refers to English Church, just as one could say French Church or German Church. It’s just as ROMAN CHURCH is used. Church of England is something different than English Church. The latter means The Church in England. The Church being that in communion with the Pope.

I find it insulting you say I haven’t investigated Anglican teaching simply because I come to a conclusion you do not like. I have investigated it. The “spin”, which is highly debatable, has been approved and accepted by an Anglican bishop, that settles the matter for me.

Well, you should also know that people who liked it were actually very supportive of the claim that Anglicans were “part of…”. They didn’t take it to mean what you interpret it to mean. Why should I tell the bishop? I wasn’t even in the room when he approved it and it bears no relevance, see above.

I am not looking for vindication, but only for opinions. I’m glad you’ve given me yours. Good day to you, sir.
 
  • you know exactly what you are up to, and are looking for vindication of your actions from a forum which is probably going to give you it.
It seems to me you are vindicating the OP’s action more than any Catholic could possibly do on this forum.

Cutler, even if you don’t become Catholic you are still welcome to work at our parish office. We don’t require you to be Catholic to work here.

Peace brother!!!
 
It seems to me you are vindicating the OP’s action more than any Catholic could possibly do on this forum.

Cutler, even if you don’t become Catholic you are still welcome to work at our parish office. We don’t require you to be Catholic to work here.

Peace brother!!!
I’ll be becoming Catholic, that’s fixed. 🙂
 
welcome home, C. enjoy the ride. my favorite hymns are English. *Morning has broken *and The day thou gavest, Lord is ended.
Thanks, and indeed my most favourite hymns are written in English too. 🙂 In fact, I like the Liturgy to be in English rather than German, but Latin is still Queen. 🙂
 
Thanks, and indeed my most favourite hymns are written in English too. 🙂 In fact, I like the Liturgy to be in English rather than German, but Latin is still Queen. 🙂
I don’t like latin, because, you know, ipse dixit.
 
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