Anglicanism and Catholicism (reconcilation)

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OnAJourney said:
A good friend of mine takes the position that within enough time and by numbers, there could be a strand of Anglicanism that finds itself as a rite of the Church. Me personally I’m not entirely sure on it. I think he’s coming from the point of view as an idealistic Catholic.
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But doesn’t the Ordinariate fulfill this?
Isn’t it called the Anglican Use rite? I thought
I had heard that term used and they have their book of Divine Liturgy which incorporates the Anglican aspects into the
Mass? @OnAJourney
 
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It’s been explained to me that the Ordinariate is a use of the Latin Rite, not its own rite. Ordinariate members are members of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
My point was that they are member of the same Rite as Roman Catholics, not members of another Rite in communion with the Pope, like the Eastern Rite.
 
Yes I also got the impression that they have seminarians, although their priests are not allowed to get married for example. An Anglican Vicar may come in to the church and have special permission to be ordained while married but new seminarians cannot. Is that because they are not their own rite?
 
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Ecumenism is about Christian communities reuniting. That Canterbury and others have not reunited with Rome is a sign that there are disagreements about various issues. Prayer and conversation can help the ecumenical effort to reunite. The point is to develop a better understanding of one another. ( the 39 articles!? The Chicago Lambeth Quadrilateral largely replaced them 100 years ago)

The Anglican Ordinariates are not ecumenical. They may one day become a way for the Anglican Communion to join the Catholic Church, but they are probably more of an obstacle right now. (This usually happens, as with Byzantine Catholics being the biggest obstacle to Catholic Orthodox unity for many years. Now they play a more conciliatory role mostly) The Ordinariate has helped develop some appreciation of Anglican customs, which may help ecumenism. Mostly they are in an awkward middle place with their own set of problems, along with the historical Anglican issues.
 
OnAJourney said:
whether it could be possible for a reconciliation between Rome and Canterbury?
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@OnAJourney , I am only writing of the Church of England part of the Anglican Communion .

As things stand I can see no reconciliation between the Church of England and the Catholic Church .

The Church of England is a “broad” church , and most in that broad church would not be able to reach an agreement which would allow for full unity .

There are parts of the C of E which are near enough in full agreement with the Catholic Church , but there are no signs that those parts are willing to leave the C of E to be united with Rome .

Any union with Rome will be as it has mostly been on a basis of individual conversions .

None of the above should not stop us from rejoicing at the unity between the churches which has been achieved through the ecumenical movement .

The relations between the C of E and the RC Church are in no way like they were when I was born , and I thank God for that .

But , who knows ? With God all things are possible .
 
Rob2 said:
The Church of England is a “broad” church , and most in that broad church would not be able to reach an agreement which would allow for full unity .
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This is a critical point. The Anglican Church makes room for a pretty wide swathe of beliefs. You’ve got folks who are basically Catholic without the Pope, and you’ve got folks who are basically Presbyterians with a slightly better view of the sacraments. That broad tent will not be reconciled with Catholicism.
 
HopkinsReb said:
You’ve got folks who are basically Catholic without the Pope, and you’ve got folks who are basically Presbyterians with a slightly better view of the sacraments. That broad tent will not be reconciled with Catholicism.
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I suppose you could reconcile with the people who are basically Catholic in doctrine and practice, just minus the Pope.
 
Most of us have a foot in the Tiber anyway. That’s what the Ordinariate and the pastoral provision are for. But that wouldn’t be reconciliation with the Anglican Church; it’d be welcoming Anglo-Catholics into the fold.
 
For me Anglicanism was basically a stepping stone to Catholicism, so I get your point
 
The Ordinariates are a gift to the Church and to those Anglicans who which to join the Catholic Church. There will be no reconciliation between Rome and the Church of England or the Episcopal Church in the United States, or the Anglican Church of Canada.

Any reconciliation with the individual Anglican jurisdictions will have an Anglo-Catholic flavour, and they will form part of the Latin church, with their liturgies a Use of the Roman Rite, as it already is today. They will not become churches sui iuris, and they will not have their own Rite.
 
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porthos11 said:
There will be no reconciliation between Rome and the Church of England or the Episcopal Church in the United States, or the Anglican Church of Canada.
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Possibly.

Ecumenism is about the hope that we will be one, despite all the evidence to the contrary. The restoration of unity (unitatis redintegratio) is rooted in the prayer of Christ that all may be one. (Ut unum sint) We cannot give up hope just because we cannot see the distant scene. One step has to be enough until we reach our final home.
 
Dovekin said:
Ecumenism is about Christian communities reuniting. That Canterbury and others have not reunited with Rome is a sign that there are disagreements about various issues. Prayer and conversation can help the ecumenical effort to reunite. The point is to develop a better understanding of one another. ( the 39 articles!? The Chicago Lambeth Quadrilateral largely replaced them 100 years ago)

The Anglican Ordinariates are not ecumenical. They may one day become a way for the Anglican Communion to join the Catholic Church, but they are probably more of an obstacle right now. (This usually happens, as with Byzantine Catholics being the biggest obstacle to Catholic Orthodox unity for many years. Now they play a more conciliatory role mostly) The Ordinariate has helped develop some appreciation of Anglican customs, which may help ecumenism. Mostly they are in an awkward middle place with their own set of problems, along with the historical Anglican issues.
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Could you explain what their own set of
problems are? I don’t think Benedict XVI when he was Pope would have allowed the
Ordinariates to be set up if he wasn’t practicing some kind of ecumenism.
How do you see their place as awkward?
I was raised in the Episcopal church, but
became a non-practicing Episcopalian for 20+ years before I joined the Catholic church. They were in the process of developing the Ordinariates right after I became Catholic. I hear their liturgy is beautiful and I would love to attend a service, but surprisingly, we do not have an
Ordinariate where I live.
The Episcopal church is more liberal than the Church of England, but I don’t know if either one will ever reconcile with the Catholic church especially as long as England retains the monarchy because of
the relationship between the monarchy and the Church of England.
 
To be fair, “Anglican” doesn’t always or automatically mean Canterbury. I grew up in the Anglican Catholic Church, which agrees with the Vatican on sexual morality and the ordination of women, as well as abortion. I’m unable to cut and paste links right now for some reason, but anglicancatholic.org has more information.

With their differing view of Papal authority, I’d agree with your assessment about full reconciliation/amalgamation. I just wanted to clarify that “Anglican” can have a broad meaning, and many branches of the Church share a lot of teachings in common with the Vatican.
 
And the OP did explicitly mention reconciliation between Rome and Canterbury
 
7_Sorrows said:
Could you explain what their own set of
problems are? I don’t think Benedict XVI when he was Pope would have allowed the
Ordinariates to be set up if he wasn’t practicing some kind of ecumenism.
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Benedict did not consult with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, which he would have if he thought this was about Ecumenism. Or maybe he consulted late in the process. It was a while ago.

The priests in the Ordinariate had to be ordained, as their orders were “absolutely null and void” though their training was good enough for them to be ordained as priests. This is not major, but should give you a sense of the awkwardness. Or this, ordinariates can exist without a bishop as the Ordinary. Or with a bishop from outside the Anglican tradition.

They do a good job of preserving Anglican traditions, sometimes better than Canterbury. Not surprisingly, they do tend toward the Anglo-Catholic, high church side of things. That is what I hear, at least. You probably won’t notice anything that reflects the awkwardness I am talking about.
 
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